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Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

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Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  KAS on 11/11/2011, 8:23 am

What exactly is a backyard breeder? I know about puppy mills and the atrocities associated with them. I got my Maddie from a family in St. Petersburg. They had a lot of pugs, males and females. All were in the house. I didn't know a thing about breeding and breeders. I just wanted a pug! Were they backyard breeders?

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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  Amanda on 11/11/2011, 10:37 am

Excellent question. Here is a good article that provides an overview of a backyard breeder.
http://blogcritics.org/culture/article/the-truth-about-backyard-dog-breeders/

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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  Guest on 11/11/2011, 12:15 pm

My girl Viv came from a BYB, I didn't know any better at the time, I got fairly lucky with her although she does have some issues.

I will always adopt from a rescue from now on and never shop at any store that sells dogs.

Once you know better you do better.

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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  CSollers on 11/11/2011, 12:32 pm

Same story here. Minni, our first Pug was purchased from a BYB. Luckily her health has been good for the most part. When we decided to get another Pug, we adopted Sugar Ray through MAPR. All future Pugs will be rescues.
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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  northernwitch on 11/11/2011, 12:35 pm

Here is a very hand chart that compares backyard vs. reputable breeder.

http://www.boxermap.com/reputablebreeder.html
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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  GracieNEmma on 11/11/2011, 1:19 pm

I got both of my pugs from a "breeder". While she wasn't a reputable breeder, she did take care of and love her pugs. They did live inside and thankfully, not in cages. But, she also did it to make money. I wish I knew better at the time but of course, I wouldn't have my two girls. I didn't know about breed specific rescues at that time. I had my name on a "waiting list" at our local Humane Society and SPCA for about 4 months but one never came in so I found them in a local ad in the paper.
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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  ayleash on 11/11/2011, 1:25 pm

Donna wrote:Once you know better you do better.

I am stealing (sharing) this line...

THANKS!
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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  Rallypug on 11/11/2011, 2:03 pm

Stubby came from a "breeder" but if I knew then what I know now......her dogs have a terrible health reputation, temperment problems etc. As I have told the story before Stubby came into our lives @ 10 months, had lived in an Xpen most of his life, was passed over by everybody because the breeder always had puppies, his eyes were oversized and I think she just forgot about him. My darling daughter insisted we could not leave him there because nobody would ever buy him and the rest is history. I know he was replaced instantly by another dog to be sold. But I have never regretted it a moment.

If I wasn't doing CKC obedience I would probably never have another papered dog. Most of the rescue Pugs I have seen would not be suitable for doing what I need them to do and it would not be fair to ask. You do see some dogs being trialed with PEN numbers (which indicate they are rescue or BYB dogs) but they are few and far between. The Pug rescue group out here just got a large number of young Pugs from a puppymill but their general condition (both mental and physical) really puts a huge strain on them when asking for them do do perfomance activities.

My vet says Pugs in general are really not built to do the jumping and athletic work which upper level obedience requires. She keeps a close monitor on Stubby, his weight, joints, overall health to ensure I am not putting him under stress which could damage his health and shorten his life.
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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  Guest on 11/11/2011, 2:12 pm

ayleash wrote:
Donna wrote:Once you know better you do better.

I am stealing (sharing) this line...

THANKS!

Steal away, it's not original so I can't take credit for it. I actually think Oprah says it (eck!)

Viv's breeder was not horrible, she did care for her pugs, they did live inside and not in cages but she also just did it for the money.

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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  Renee on 11/11/2011, 2:29 pm

Donna wrote:Once you know better you do better.


I think we all learn. My first pug was from a BYB (knock on wood, she is the healthiest and most fits the breed standard), my second pug... ... was from a puppy mill. Honestly, I had NO IDEA what a puppy mill was. It breaks my heart to think that is how I got Ichiro. I learned right quick what a mill was, after he arrived with so many health problems. I know better now, and my third pug was a rescue.

I would love to do flyball, obedience, rally, etc - but, I will never again "buy" a dog. They will only be rescues. If I can rescue one that can do a sport, awesome. If not, then I won't stress about it.
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Confession Time

Post  KAS on 11/11/2011, 3:00 pm

Please don't dump me from Pug Authority! I WAS a BYB! I fit the description of the "breeder" that loved her pug so much that she thought everyone should have one! My Maddie had ultrasounds and vet checks and my vet even gave me her cell phone number in case I needed her after hours. It was only after I began to research the breed that I became aware of the pug standard etc. and at that point I had Maddie spayed. I could not love her or any of my other pugs any more even if they were perfect examples of the breed. They are ALL spayed or neutered now. No litters after the first one. I also screened the families the puppies went to. All went to wonderful homes and I am still in touch with all but one of the adoptive families and all are doing well.

Now, I have a personal story about a "reputable breeder" that I found on the AKC website. It is a long sad tale of woe and I'll tell it if you want to hear it.

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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  Rebecca and the Pugs on 11/11/2011, 3:31 pm

KAS wrote:Please don't dump me from Pug Authority! I WAS a BYB! I fit the description of the "breeder" that loved her pug so much that she thought everyone should have one! My Maddie had ultrasounds and vet checks and my vet even gave me her cell phone number in case I needed her after hours. It was only after I began to research the breed that I became aware of the pug standard etc. and at that point I had Maddie spayed. I could not love her or any of my other pugs any more even if they were perfect examples of the breed. They are ALL spayed or neutered now. No litters after the first one. I also screened the families the puppies went to. All went to wonderful homes and I am still in touch with all but one of the adoptive families and all are doing well.

Now, I have a personal story about a "reputable breeder" that I found on the AKC website. It is a long sad tale of woe and I'll tell it if you want to hear it.
I am wondering why you would start this thread to ask about Maddie's breeder, when you bred her the same way? Not trying to be judgemental, but very curious. I bought my first pug from the paper with AKC papers. Now I know that not only was it a byb, but a puppymill. We even paid extra to get a female, but breeding her was never a thought. I have learned so much since then.


Last edited by Rebecca and the Pugs on 11/11/2011, 3:48 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  Aussie Witch on 11/11/2011, 3:39 pm

Hey Kas, as has been clearly stated, "once you know better, you DO better"! I think many of us have some minor skeletons in our closets (mine was taking my first Pug, well over 30 years ago, at FOUR WEEKS OF AGE....Shocked And his breeder was a SHOW breeder and a SHOW JUDGE). You no longer do it and have seen the light. Good for you!

Some very good and very thorough definitions of just what constitutes a BYB'er have been given. As most top breeders also breed from their "backyard", I think it is important to remember being labelled a BYB'er is all about intention and not about location.

And please, share your story about a breeder, just keep them anonymous!
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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  Tyson&LuLu'sMom on 11/11/2011, 3:41 pm

I think we all have to learn somehow, some way. And once we do know the details and definitions, hopefully we do better and try to educate others.
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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  Saira on 11/11/2011, 3:42 pm

Tyson&LuLu'sMom wrote:I think we all have to learn somehow, some way. And once we do know the details and definitions, hopefully we do better and try to educate others.
yup! Hooli was from a pet store before I knew better. We all start somewhere.
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For Curious

Post  KAS on 11/11/2011, 5:12 pm

I did not research the Pug standard or breeding until after I had already bred Maddie,then I became educated and had her spayed. I read the article that was suggested and I have never seen back yard breeding so well described. So, if the people I got Maddie from were BYB, then so was I.

I went to an AKC sanctioned show that was put on here in Brooksville. My thought was that I really did want to be a pug breeder and do it the right way. I thought I would be able to speak to some of the people showing their pugs and find out how they got started, maybe get some advice. Well, I was surprised to find that none wanted talk to me and some were even down right rude! I did not expect that.My experience with people that owned pugs was that it's hard to get them to stop talking about them! The only folks at the show that were nice were those there with their pug pets. I came away with a negative opinion of people that show their dogs. I know those folks invest a lot of time and money hoping their dogs will place well and earn points, but it seems to me that the goal in the end might still be money. If your bitch or stud has "championship" blood lines, you can get more for the stud fee and more for the puppies. I wasn't going to give up though but I'll tell that story another time. Thanks for your support. I am feeling really guilty! I would never knowingly do anything harmful to these wonderful little dogs.

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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  Pugsaunt on 11/11/2011, 5:15 pm

Kas, it is a learning curve for all of us. I knew nothing about pugs and was introduced to them through a friend who got her pug from PugSavers. Then she fostered Penny Lane, and then I adopted Penny. No experience with BYBs or puppy mills, and had no idea that dogs in pet stores are mass-produced. Now I have a bumper sticker on my car that says "Don't shop, adopt." No need to kick yourself for what is past and done.
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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  Tyson&LuLu'sMom on 11/11/2011, 5:24 pm

One of the first pug forums I was ever on had a lot of show breeders as members. It got down right nasty, a lot. I think you'll find that this group is more rescue-focused and passionate about the world of rescue, both pugs and other dogs.
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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  Pugsavers on 11/11/2011, 5:31 pm

There really are varying degrees of what makes a "reputable" breeder. Sometimes I think we should come up with a special title for those that do "pass the test" so to speak.

While I personally know a few who are really in it for the love of the breed and do everything in their power to make sure that any breeding they do will be an attempt to better the breed, I also know several who meet the "definition" of what you would call a reputable show breeder who either try to dump their pugs into rescues or do not help when their pugs or decendents of their pugs end up in rescue. I have also seen show breeders stud out their pugs to people who are in fact BYB's and do not care.

A reputable breeder will do everything in their power to make sure that any pug of theirs that is NOT show quality is promptly neutered or spayed to make sure there are no accidental breedings. If a dog is returned to them because it cannot be shown, they will spay or neuter immediately. They do this because they love and care for the breed and do not want to contribute any more to the pet overpopulation problem and want the best in health for the dogs they have bred.

Another thing that a reputable breeder does is keep in close contact with all of the owners of the puppies they have sold so in case there are medical issues down the line that show up and which are genetic, they can be certain not to repeat the same breeding.

While some may make money on stud service and breeding, for the most part a lot more $$ goes into breeding properly and getting a dogs' championship than in selling puppies or doing AI.
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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  GingerSnap on 11/11/2011, 11:33 pm

Like many others, I got Jackson from a BYB who sounds much like you were, KAS. Loving people, and they and good care of the dogs they had, but were doing anything for the betterment of pugs? No. Were they still contributing to the problem of pet overpopulation? Yes.

Did you do the right thing by quitting breeding when you did? Yes!
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Re: Puppy mills and "backyard breeders"

Post  Puggered on 11/13/2011, 10:50 pm

Pugsavers wrote:There really are varying degrees of what makes a "reputable" breeder. Sometimes I think we should come up with a special title for those that do "pass the test" so to speak.


I like to call them "Ethical Breeders", where the breed's and the individual dogs' health and welfare is kept first and foremost. Not all show breeders are ethical and not all ethical breeders show, you really do need to do as much research as you can before you buy. It is hard to know the right questions to ask the first time around.
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I agree

Post  KAS on 11/14/2011, 8:08 pm

I like the "ethical" breeder description. After I did the research I should have done before I bought my first pug, I started searching for a pug that was suitable for breeding as I really did want to be a breeder. I searched the AKC website list of breeders that were members. I found one in Florida that had a 1 1/2 year old fawn female. I emailed the breeder and we talked at length on the phone. I was up front about where I wanted to go with this and after a month of communication he agreed to sell me the dog and help me get started. He had several show dogs that were champions and this little female came from those lines. So, I went to south Florida and picked up Katie Boo. I got my first clue that all was not well on the trip home. I know pugs snort and snore but this little dog concerned me. I thought maybe it was just anxiety and excitement from new people, places etc. I emailed the breeder asap when we got in and his response was that she always breathed like that. We went immediately to my vet for a thorough check. Katie needed to lose a few pounds and it was hoped that her breathing would improve. She also had an umbilical hernia and baby teeth that had not come out. Long story short, losing weight didn't help. She was scheduled for surgery to correct what was most likely a soft palate problem. Boy was it! The vet said she had to move the soft palate aside to intubate Katie. The surgery did not solve the problem. After a trip to the emergency vet after Katie aspirated one evening,

we were referred to a group of specialists in Largo. Endoscopy showed that she had paralysis of one of her vocal cords. A relatively new surgery was recommended and done that did give her quite a bit of improvement but did not totally solve the issue as she will sometimes still aspirate food. Scares me to death! She crouches to the floor,tail straight out, salivates and her tongue turns blue. Fortunately,the episodes have always subsided. I emailed the breeder about all of these problems and he stopped responding. I really was unhappy about what I percieved as his lack of concern for Katie. When I finally let him know I was considering reporting him to AKC, he offered to take her back. By that time, she was part of our family and I had spent thousands of dollars trying to help her. I would not consider returning her under any circumstances. I do not think this breeder cared at all for this little dog. I also don't believe for a minute that he could have been unaware of her problems. He raises pugs for pete's sake! So, Katie Boo has been with us for three years. It has only been this past year that she has learned to play with the other pugs and seek attention from her humans. She used to just sit back and watch all the others tussle and play and never ask to be petted or loved on. Really sad! But she is doing better now socially. She of course was spayed as she certainly is not appropriate for breeding. The only thing I can say good about this breeder was that he didn't turn her in to rescue or have her euthanized. So, I have gotten a pug from a BYB and from an AKC breeder and I don't know which was worse! But I do have sweet little Katie Boo.

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