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Feeding Information *Important*

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Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Eiyer on 4/6/2012, 10:14 pm

Hello. I've had my pug now for a while. When I first got him he refused to eat dry dog food, so I decided to start feeding him canned food. He has always enjoyed it and he is a HUGE picky eater, even with canned food it has to be a certain type or he wan't even taste it. I want to break him of Canned food because it is supposed to be bad for their digestion and teeth. I've tried several dry foods, he won't touch them at all. I don't really know how to break him other than letting him starve until he decides to eat it. I do have some canned food in case he goes to long without food. But I don't know what to do...it is hard for me to let him go hungry.

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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Renee on 4/6/2012, 10:21 pm

You are misinformed. Canned food, good quality canned food, is much better than dried kibble.

What is bad for digestion / teeth is not the fact that the food is canned, but whatever the ingredients are. A high fat food, be it kibble or canned, can cause digestion issues, as can allergies to whatever is in the food. Bad teeth come from general poor nutrition, too much sugar / carbs in the food (read the ingredients), and lack of dental care.

I would suggest you do some research on dog nutrition from unbiased sources. Canned food, when it is good quality, is much healthier because it contains a higher moisture content, which is never a bad thing.
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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Eiyer on 4/6/2012, 10:29 pm

Ok, so I'm ok feeding him the canned food exclusively? He loves the Purina Alpo Lamb and Rice. It is about the only thing besides actual real meat that he'll eat. He won't each much of anything...I'm just not sure what to do. As far as teeth health, I don't know...he won't chew on anything, won't play with any toys, won't eat snacks, or those sticks that are good for teeth. He just likes to sleep, go for a walk, and eat. Nothing much else.

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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  northernwitch on 4/6/2012, 10:47 pm

Can I ask how old your pug is? Cause what you are describing is unusual in an otherwise healthy dog. Has he been vetted recently to rule out any health problems?

As to what you are feeding--here are the ingredients. I've highlighted the ones that are problematic and I'll explain why after the ingredients are posted:

Water sufficient for
processing, poultry, liver, wheat gluten, lamb, meat by-products, rice,
soy flour, corn starch-modified
, salt, calcium phosphate, potassium
chloride, added color, choline chloride, calcium carbonate, zinc
sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, niacin, copper sulfate,
thiamine mononitrate, manganese sulfate, calcium pantothenate,
pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 supplement, riboflavin
supplement, Vitamin A supplement, potassium iodide, folic acid, Vitamin
D-3 supplement, biotin, sodium selenite.

I will say that at least the first two ingredients are meat--but a bit vague--poultry could be a lot of different kinds of bird and the liver listed is just listed as liver--no animal source cited. Then there are meat by-products--and no source for the meat specified--could be anything. The next three ingredients are grains which tend to be allergens for dogs. Finally, "added colour"--that could be anything and is unnecessary. Dogs don't care what colour their food is.

I'm also a tad suspicious of something that is simply listed as a supplement, but not specific as to source. Admittedly, I'm a real crank about food.

Finally--look at the analysis:
Guaranteed Analysis




  • Crude Protein (Min)
    9.5%
  • Crude Fat (Min)
    4.0%
  • Crude Fiber (Max)
    1.5%
  • Moisture (Max)
    80.0%
That is a pretty low protein percentage. I generally don't feed any food with a protein level lower than 20 to 25 percent and generally I feed a very high protein level when I feed kibble--although my own dogs are raw fed.

It's not the worst canned food out there by any means, but I'd go with a higher quality of canned--like the Wellness or Taste of the Wild.

And it might be worth trying out different things for him to chew--smoked bones, bully sticks, etc.
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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Renee on 4/6/2012, 10:50 pm

Eiyer wrote: He just likes to sleep, go for a walk, and eat. Nothing much else.

Well that sounds pretty typical if he is an elderly pug. How old is he?

As for Purina and Alpo. I would suggest you read the ingredients on the back. Both those brands contain "meat by-product". Meaning it is more likely than not that it contains diseased or euthanized animals, including even euthanized dog or cat. When they don't name the source of the meat (i.e. chicken, beef, pork), then you have no idea what the meat is. It could be anything. Not to mention, by-products are the absolute lowest of the low, the crap. The slaughterhouse waste. In addition to the meat by-products, they both are heavy in grains and have added colors / dyes / sugars. Not something any animal needs.

You can check out food reviews from www.dogfoodadvisor.com. As for his teeth, try letting him chew on marrow bones (raw) or bully sticks. Even just a little bit of chewing a few times a week can help.

Spending a little more on the cost of the food can have a big impact on improving overall health.

Don't get too down on kibble though. There are some very good, high quality choices for kibble that are available. Doing a combination of kibble and canned is very common for a lot of people.
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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  northernwitch on 4/6/2012, 10:52 pm

Here is a review of another Alpo product--while it's not the one you feed, it gives a good idea of how dog food is evaluated and rated:

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/alpo-chop-house-dog-food/
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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Eiyer on 4/6/2012, 10:54 pm

I'd feed him anything that is good for him if he'd eat it. But that is the problem, he won't eat ANYTHING. He loves this canned food, he just had a 7-in-1 shot a few weeks ago. He hasn't been to the vet, but he doesn't act like he isn't healthy. He just likes that food and that is it. I can't stand starving him just to get him to eat dry dog food. I've tried other canned food, but he won't touch it. He has a good appetite as long as I'm feeding him this food.

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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Eiyer on 4/6/2012, 10:56 pm

He isn't very old. Maybe 2 in a half, 3 at the most. I'm not real sure, he has papers to show when he was born. He is registered and all that, he is a very happy dog, but he is also very skitterish. Skitterish to the point I want to take him to the vet and see if they have any anxiety medicine he could use. Walmart sells drops and a collar you can use to relieve stress and stuff. But he is a very happy dog, he loves being outside, he loves playing with cats and other dogs, he always looks happy. He just needs a good steady diet. The reason I settled on this Purina Alpo dog food is because he eats it like he loves it, I can't get him to eat anything else. It just kind of scares me to let him go days without eating to break him into something else.

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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  GingerSnap on 4/6/2012, 11:02 pm

This site http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/ is a great resource to look toward when choosing a food. A quick check shows that the Alpo canned is a 2-star food (out of 5), so although I wouldn't be concerned about the fact that you're feeding canned food, there's definitely room for improvement! Most of us have found that we're able to feed less of a higher quality food than we would of a lower quality brand, and it's also easier to keep our pug sat a healthy weight.

If you want to see the best of the canned foods, you can click on the Wet Foods link on the left and then sort it by 5-star and 4-star foods. It will give the reviews of each food and specifically highlight any ingredients that there may be concerns about.

If you do want to try another dry kibble that your pug may like better, I've had good luck with Natural Balance and Taste of the Wild.

Many of the foods you'll see on the list may be ones that you're not familiar with, as many aren't grocery store brands. Petsmart and Petco are carrying more and more good foods, though, and I've had good luck with my local feed & seed store and Tractor Supply Company. Local pet boutiques and groomers often carry higher quality foods, and there's always the option of ordering online. Online shipping charges can suck, but a lot of the online vendors run specials and discounts very frequently, so if you time your purchases well, it may not be that bad.
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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  northernwitch on 4/6/2012, 11:25 pm

Eiyer wrote:He isn't very old. Maybe 2 in a half, 3 at the most. I'm not real sure, he has papers to show when he was born. He is registered and all that, he is a very happy dog, but he is also very skitterish. Skitterish to the point I want to take him to the vet and see if they have any anxiety medicine he could use. Walmart sells drops and a collar you can use to relieve stress and stuff. But he is a very happy dog, he loves being outside, he loves playing with cats and other dogs, he always looks happy. He just needs a good steady diet. The reason I settled on this Purina Alpo dog food is because he eats it like he loves it, I can't get him to eat anything else. It just kind of scares me to let him go days without eating to break him into something else.
Well, if he's eating it and won't eat anything else, then I'd not sweat it as long as he's not having any adverse reactions. It's not great food, but if that's all he'll eat, then you are kind of stuck.

It is unusual for a pug to be a picky eater in my experience. Mine will eat almost anything including some things I consider inedible. Wellness makes a "meat only" food that you could mix into the Alpo to up the meat content and protein level.

There's no reason to feed him kibble, to be honest. Canned is more bio-available. The whole "kibble helps keep teeth clean" is mostly a myth as most dogs don't chew their food well enough (if at all) for it to have any effect on teeth cleaning.

If he won't chew things, you may have to break down and start brushing his teeth.

And just a head's up on the 7 in 1 vaccine--pugs have one of the highest rates of serious vaccine reaction. I'd split up the vaccines in the future and not slam his immune system with all of them at once. In our rescue, we do rabies (usually three year which is the same dosage as the one year), then wait three weeks then do DHPP (although we prefer DPv). And we don't vaccinate for lepto or kennel cough. Just something to think about.
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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Eiyer on 4/6/2012, 11:31 pm

Ok, thanks for all the advice. My sisters, husbands mom is the one I got him from. She is a Pug and uhhh...those little dogs, can't think of them, maybe Yorkshire Terriers? But that doesn't sound right. But she has always given them all the 7-in-1 shot, she's been in the business for a while. But thanks for the heads up!

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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Not Afraid on 4/7/2012, 3:49 am

Would you eat at Taco Bell for every meal? Alpo is kind of the dog equivalent of Taco Bell. It's not very good food and the effects of eating it day in and day out would be akin to if you ate Taco Bell for every meal.

Try transitioning him to a better canned food slowly, by mixing in a few spoonfulls of better food and increasing the amounts every couple of days. Pugs aren't typically picky eaters, but if he is a mix (could it be Chihuahua?) then I can see where the pickiness comes from.
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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Eiyer on 4/7/2012, 4:25 am

No, he is full blooded, like I said, he has papers. His previous owner still has them, I need to get them from her. But he is extremely picky, he'll turn his nose up to almost all scraps except a few. And I'm seriously scared he'll starve to death before he eats anything other than this canned food.

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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Rebecca and the Pugs on 4/7/2012, 9:39 am

Eiyer wrote:No, he is full blooded, like I said, he has papers. .
I was confused because you said pug AND "those little dogs". If there is any bit of "and", it is not full-blooded with papers.
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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  ocnside on 4/7/2012, 9:57 am

I am so glad the experts are giving you advice because as I sit here and read this thread I am literally in tears! My pug means the world to me... he is like my toddler and I'd only give & do the best for him! Some of the things you mentioned like Alpo & scraps & especially the 7 in 1 vaccine would have killed my Julian!!! He is allergic to everything except lamb & the only people food he will ever get is brown rice n the vaccines; he has to be pre medded . We have been in the ER waaaay to much to chance anything.
Honest to God without these knowledgeable people here I'd have had such situations on my hands! Please listen to them I swear they know the deal!
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Post  Rallypug on 4/7/2012, 1:11 pm

Lots of interesting ideas in this topic! Stubby is not fussy in the least but I am always concerned with keeping him at his optimal weight for jumping during trialing season. My daughter's Golden puppy has turned out to be very allergic to many of the commercial dry foods. She switched him to The Honest Kitchen "embark" and his whole health improved....coat, fecal matter and energy level. She adds a variety of extras like probiotic yogurt, pumpkin and cooked chopped chicken. Stubby would do backflips for this food. It looks for all the world like lentil soup mix but seems to be highly palatable and easy to prepare. Good information on their website to peruse. Lots of kinds to choose from too. Good luck in your search for the perfect food.
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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Renee on 4/7/2012, 1:37 pm

Rallypug wrote:Lots of interesting ideas in this topic! Stubby is not fussy in the least but I am always concerned with keeping him at his optimal weight for jumping during trialing season. My daughter's Golden puppy has turned out to be very allergic to many of the commercial dry foods. She switched him to The Honest Kitchen "embark" and his whole health improved....coat, fecal matter and energy level. She adds a variety of extras like probiotic yogurt, pumpkin and cooked chopped chicken. Stubby would do backflips for this food. It looks for all the world like lentil soup mix but seems to be highly palatable and easy to prepare. Good information on their website to peruse. Lots of kinds to choose from too. Good luck in your search for the perfect food.

A lot of us (me included), feed this food. The Honest Kitchen is a great product.
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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Eiyer on 4/7/2012, 2:52 pm

My dog is not mixed, she just raises two separate kinds of dogs. My dog doesn't seem to be allergic to anything, he just refuses to eat anything other than his Purina Alpo Lamb and Rice. I didn't know a lot about dog food, but Purina has always been a high dollar name brand, so I figured it would be good for him. I didn't know companies like that made bad food.

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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  CSollers on 4/7/2012, 3:39 pm

They really don't make a good food. Have you considered try a raw diet for your Pug?
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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Eiyer on 4/7/2012, 3:52 pm

I really wouldn't even know where to go with a Raw diet...before this forum I've never heard of it. As far as I know, I can't get anything like that from WalMart.

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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  ocnside on 4/7/2012, 7:49 pm

As far as I know, I can't get anything like that from WalMart.

So there is Walmart and then there is Saks Fifth Avenue....just sayin!
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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Eiyer on 4/7/2012, 8:07 pm

Ok, the highest canned Protein that WalMart sells IS 10% and that is with Purina Mighty Dog PROTEIN PACKED. The canned food I've been buying "Purina Alpo Lamb and Rice has 9.5%...tell me where this Purina Mighty Dog is getting its PROTEIN PACKED at? Now I went to Tractor Supply, they have that Taste of the Wild dog food you guys were talking about. Like 25% Protein...I'm going to buy it and see if he'll eat it, but it is dry food, so I'm very doubtful. Do you know if they sell anything that'll make a dog more likely to eat their food? The Taste of the Wild canned food was only 7.1% protein.

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Post  ocnside on 4/7/2012, 8:25 pm

Julian is on Taste of the Wild Sierra .... lamb purple bag... He won't eat dry kibble dry so we moisten it for about a half an hour to an hour then take a spoon, mix it, and its just like soft! Like I was told... make the transition 1/2 old food 1/2 new food for 5 days then all new...he won't starve he's just spoiled!
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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  Eiyer on 4/7/2012, 8:51 pm

So what do I do if he refuses to eat for several days?

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Re: Feeding Information *Important*

Post  elisemarie on 4/7/2012, 8:54 pm

hmmmm ...

My late husband refused to feed his/our/my little luv, Toby (now passed) anything except Pedegree Little Champions, McDonalds plain, single hamburgers, and small vanilla ice cream cones.

Toby was quite content with his goofy diet. hair pull

After Bob passed on, I weaned Toby completely off the Little Champions. Not only did the Little Champions smell terrible, Toby would finish eating with a muzzle full of gravy which had to be thoroughly washed off - otherwise, Toby would develop pretty severe "pimples" in the folds of his nose.

Anyway ... VERY slowly, and VERY gradually, I weaned Toby off the Little Champions by grounding up Hill's Prescription Diet W/D dry kibble in a blender and mixing it with his wet food.

I made very subtle changes in Toby's meals. It took about two months of gradually reducing the Little Champions and increasing the W/D before Toby was eating finely ground, then more coarsely ground, and then whole little kibbles of W/D slightly softened with homemade beef au jus.

Toby was over-weight (gee ... what was my first clue????). After Toby became "mine", the vet suggested I use W/D to reduce his weight. I could not have done anything to improve Toby's diet while my late was still alive. There was no arguing with my late when it came to the care and feeding of his "biggest little man".

Toby lived to be 13 years old. He lived seven years with me after my hubby passed on. I firmly believe his health dramatically improved after he was under my care.

Transitioning food takes time. If your Pug is hooked on the Alpo stuff, it might be because of the additives in the Alpo. I'm not an expert in this area, however, I do believe "the big" pet food manufacturers put stuff in their food to keep a dog "hooked" on their product. Like I said, I do not know this to be a fact, but it would not surprise me.

~~~~~

I can remember feeding the Siberian Husky who grew up with me this stuff called "Top Choice", and this other stuff that looked like cubes of processed ham. I was still a little kid. Even then, I wondered about the nutritional value of the stuff my parents chose to feed our Husky. Amazingly, Bo-Bo (aka: Boris) lived to be 15 years old.

~~~~~

I am reminded of a scene from the movie, "Crocodile Dundee". Mick is preparing a meal of goanna, yams, grubs and sugar ants. His "girlfriend", Sue, asks Mick why he isn't eating any of the stuff he is preparing. Mick replies, "Well, you can live off of it, but it tastes like shit."

Shocked
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