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Health Problems In Pugs

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Health Problems In Pugs

Post  Confused on 7/6/2012, 3:14 pm

I have a year old male who has just suffered his second seizure and is now undergoing tests to rule out illness etc. It appears he has had an epileptic episode. I know the breed is prone to encephalitis and the seizure activity can preceed this issue but has anyone noted to have epilepsy experience in any of this breed ? Any information will be most appreciated... thanks... Christy

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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  northernwitch on 7/6/2012, 3:37 pm

Yes, Pugs can have epilepsy. I don't see a lot of it (as in more than the average dog breed). And they can get something called Pug Dog Encephalitis (PDE).

PDE usually has a pretty severe onset with all kind of symptoms besides seizures--like circling, head pressing, sometimes blindness, staggering, etc.

Diagnosing a dog with epilepsy is done by ruling out everything else and watching to see if there are more seizures. Seizures can be caused by a wide variety of things from eating something toxic to heat stroke.

Here are two links on epilepsy in dogs, but both talk about seizures generally:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/

http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Why.html

I've had a couple of dogs in foster care who had several seizures as puppies and never had another after the age of 7 months. So don't assume the worst and most vets won't rush to use meds. In some instances, the cheaper seizures meds--phenobarbital and potassium bromide--can have side effects that can be as bad as the seizures in my opinion.

I'd be inclined to see a veterinary neurologist if you are concerned that this may be a seizure disorder. And many dogs live long and healthy lives with epilepsy
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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  Confused on 7/6/2012, 3:50 pm

Very Happy Thank you for your feedback... I have been nursing for 34 years myself and am aware of what surrounds the illness... I appreciate it very much that you have given me such a great and informative reply and I feel better that my presumptions are correct... he has had no illness, accident or toxic intake at all and the onset was so sudden it was more confusing as I could find no indications on line that this was a pug thing. the test have been done and we will see what comes of that... With luck he will be one of the lucky ones that only seizures once in a very long while and no meds are necessary... I rather stay away from medications if I can. Thanks again for the websites. I will be putting my reading glasses on today..lol Your reply is very helpful. Chirsty

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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  northernwitch on 7/6/2012, 4:25 pm

Not a problem. I don't think pugs are many more prone to seizures than any other breed, but we do see some of it in pugs. If you got this guy from a reputable breeder, you should let him or her know that he is having some seizures so that they are aware.

There are several members here who have pugs with seizures and they have managed well with meds. We've found keppra (levetiracetam) has worked well with some of our seizures dogs with way fewer side effects.

Welcome to Pug Authority, by the way.
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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  Confused on 7/6/2012, 5:25 pm

This is terrific news... hate being the only one ...lol will definitely give my vet the recommendation if it comes to the need for medication to control the seizures. Can't thank you enough for your help. It's very hard to stand by and no be able to help in the mids of an attack except to keep them safe from injury.... will keep you posted with the results. Take Care ! Christy hug dog

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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  northernwitch on 7/6/2012, 6:42 pm

Always nice to see another Canadian on the board. I'm in Toronto and very involved in Pug Rescue here.

As I said, We see some pugs with it. But it's not one of the many things pugs are prone to.
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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  Aussie Witch on 7/7/2012, 2:54 am

Hi and welcome. Blanche has given you some very good advice and links. I hope at the very worst it's idiopathic epilepsy and her seizures are infrequent enough not to require meds. Please come back for any further support or advice, this is a great place for help and just sharing Pug-life.
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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  PugLady3 on 7/7/2012, 9:17 pm

Let me preface by saying that I've had more than my fair share of experience with epilepsy in pugs. We had one pug who had petite mal seizures that we adopted at approx. 6-7 years old (he died at 12 from cancer), we lost a 15+ year old pug to a grand mal seizure that she never recovered from after several random one off seizures over the years, we currently have an epileptic foster who we've had for over a year and half who has had grand mal seizures since she was around a year old and despite medications still has seizures several times per month, and our most recent adoptee - a 6 year old who has had 3 random seizure episodes since being rescued at the beginning of May. Given my experience...I'd say that yes, pugs are prone to seizures. Here are a couple of links that I've found helpful:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com

http://www.canine-epilepsy.net

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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  northernwitch on 7/7/2012, 10:20 pm

PugLady3 wrote:Let me preface by saying that I've had more than my fair share of experience with epilepsy in pugs. We had one pug who had petite mal seizures that we adopted at approx. 6-7 years old (he died at 12 from cancer), we lost a 15+ year old pug to a grand mal seizure that she never recovered from after several random one off seizures over the years, we currently have an epileptic foster who we've had for over a year and half who has had grand mal seizures since she was around a year old and despite medications still has seizures several times per month, and our most recent adoptee - a 6 year old who has had 3 random seizure episodes since being rescued at the beginning of May. Given my experience...I'd say that yes, pugs are prone to seizures. Here are a couple of links that I've found helpful:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com

http://www.canine-epilepsy.net

I do wonder sometimes if those of us in rescue don't see a higher than average percentage of dogs with seizures--simply because some owners will dump a dog with a seizure disorder.

We've had very few in our rescue--which kind of surprised me. I know that the beagle rescue sees tons of seizure dogs as does the yorkie rescue (likely due to the prevalence of GME in Yorkies)--but our pug rescues here in Ontario don't see many.

Dog
breeds more prone to epilepsy include Beagles, Keeshond, Tervueren, Cocker
Spaniel, Poodle, Collie, German Shepherd, Irish Setter, Golden
Retriever, Dachshund, Labrador Retriever, Saint Bernard, Miniature
Schnauzer, Siberian Husky, and Wire-haired Terrier.
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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  Rebecca and the Pugs on 7/7/2012, 11:46 pm

The only three seizure dogs that I have owned were: German Shorthaired Pointer, Rottweiler, and Pug. I know the rottie had a brain tumor, the GSP had head trauma, and I still don't know why Peachy started with her seizures, but I have managed them pretty well with phenobarb.
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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  Puggered on 7/8/2012, 1:17 am



Blanche is a treasure for information!

I rescue mixed breeds and those can also have epilepsy. My clinic sees quite a lot of epileptic dogs, but Pugs are not particularly more prone to have full-blown epilespy when young than the average dog (we don't see PDE in Australia, although we do have the Yorkie version.)

Age-related seizures are common in dogs regardless of breed, although that does not apply in the case of your little one of course.

Please let us know how he gets on.
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Thank You All

Post  Confused on 7/8/2012, 12:18 pm

It is wonderful to have so many replies and great suggestions. The little dude is quite himself once the seizure is over... full of life and mischief. He will be quite upset with me come next Friday as he is going to be neutered. I have also found from the breeder of my little girl that a sibling of hers also suffers from seizures since he was 7 months sooooo there goes my foundation breeding plans... Oh Well.. They are treasures as they are and we shall be happy with them just as they are... Have been considering getting into the rescue/foster end of the program instead of breeding. Thanks again for all your help. I will keep you informed as how our Baby Bear is doing. Take Care All !! pug2

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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  northernwitch on 7/8/2012, 5:14 pm

Confused wrote:It is wonderful to have so many replies and great suggestions. The little dude is quite himself once the seizure is over... full of life and mischief. He will be quite upset with me come next Friday as he is going to be neutered. I have also found from the breeder of my little girl that a sibling of hers also suffers from seizures since he was 7 months sooooo there goes my foundation breeding plans... Oh Well.. They are treasures as they are and we shall be happy with them just as they are... Have been considering getting into the rescue/foster end of the program instead of breeding. Thanks again for all your help. I will keep you informed as how our Baby Bear is doing. Take Care All !!
Good for you for neutering him. Most decent breeders here in Ontario won't breed a dog that has had a seizure and won't breed dogs that have produced a litter with a seizure dog in it--or at least the ones I trust and would purchase from don't.
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Responsible

Post  Confused on 7/8/2012, 5:51 pm

That's call responsible breeding... that was drummed into me from when I was kennel help at the ripe old age of 4 ..lol It seems quite obvious that there are many in the pug relm that are not following this rule. Because it isn't one of the health issues address in any of the breed info sites or books I have seen. With all the feedback I have gotten in just a couple days to the contrary I think the breed books need to be revised. This happened with hip dysplasia wayyyyyy back when I was a child and it first raised it's ugly head with many German imports, shephards, rotti, to name a couple... sad to see something so devastating to continue to take off and effect our most valued friends. I hope we can stamp it out in this beautiful breed before it does become one of the norms.... So, thanks again for all your imput and as I sit at this machine with my two pug slippers I will see what I can do what I can to spread the word in my neck of the woods. Will keep you up to date on our progress... Take Care All......... Christy hug dog

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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  Pugsaunt on 7/9/2012, 6:37 pm

Nothing to add, Christy, other than you have gotten some great advice (Blanche really is a treasure, but don't tell her I said that), and welcome to PA.
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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  northernwitch on 7/9/2012, 10:37 pm

Christy:
Yeah, we in rescue see a lot of crappy breeding. A lot. What I see mostly in the bad breeding are bad legs, bad hips, bad eyes, bad tracheas and an increasingly fragile temperament, sadly.

And what's interesting about hip dysplasia is that it's endemic in the canids. It's found in coyotes and wolves. So not sure we will ever eliminate it, but the God Awful GSD breeding I see for that sloping back drives me nuts.

I think we are seeing (at least here in Ontario) are the pushback dogs from the Pug Trend after Men In Black came out. We get a lot of dogs aged 5 to 8. And now owners who got them without any regard to the needs of the breed or the quality of the breeding are up against a boat load of health issues and so give the dogs to rescue.

And it seems the trend is definitely winding down. We now have millers dumping whole litters of pug mixes, especially, because they can't sell them. And I wish to hell that kijiji and other internet selling sites would STOP selling dogs.
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Great comments "northernwitch"

Post  Confused on 7/10/2012, 12:03 pm

I hear what you say about the breeds made "famous" in tv and theater. Very sad but hard to fight. I know Men In Black would be a problem for pugs but sounds like the craze is almost over and perhaps they will leave these beauties alone. What I really can't fathom is the cross breeds that are selling for $1000.oo and up... I know if there wasn't a market for them there would be far less mixes out there. But where is the logic there. I had a show/breeding kennel for 20 + years and my pet puppies went for $500.00 that was back in mid. 70s. We took pride in the right breeding programs and quality pups but now it seems to be way off center. Boggles the mind to be sure... hair pull Great to have such good and honest imput from you all... thanks again and we shall keep in touch. Take Care All...

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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  northernwitch on 7/10/2012, 1:23 pm

Lord, don't even get me started on the "designer dog" phenomonon. Buggs and Juggs and Puggles and Ori-Peis and Pugtzus.

Makes me nuts.

I had a shih tzu/poodle (my best guess) in foster care and was adopted. The adopter takes him down to a local park on the beach where Tenzing's best friend is another shih-poo. The owner of the shih-poo paid $1,300 for him from either a pet store or off of an internet site. She was shocked when she found out Tenzing was a stray and adopted via rescue for $250 or $300 (can't remember which). They are almost identical in looks.
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Here We Go Again

Post  Confused on 7/12/2012, 10:50 pm

Well friends and neighbours... I am afraid our poor wee Bear had another major seizure this afternoon... very scary one... this time in the afternoon instead of the wee hours of the night... from start to finish it was a a full 10 minutes. I don't know if this is common with dog seizures but he was blind for approx. 3 min. at the end of the seizure. The seizure itself lasted approx. 1.5 - 2 min. after he was quite disoriented and shaky but was bumping into objects in the room as he paced. He had a lost and unfocused look on his face and eyes... after the episode ended and he was back to normal he smile came back into those beautiful eyes and he was Bear again... I just can't believe anyone would continue to plague these poor creatures with such a terrible affliction. Why has it not been documented in the breed descriptions... I can't find any breed standard and profile that even mentions epilepsy or seizures. Not even at the CKC level. Shame on those who turn a blind eye to such a nasty illness.. That's my rant..lol My vet and I have decided not to have him neutered tomorrow as it is best to try to monitor it's progress and see if medication will be indicated soooooooo the little girl will be going in to be spayed. Absolutely No Puppies from these two... This is a heart break because they complimented each other so well ... they would have had some beautiful babies... but it's not to be... rant Take Care All... Chat soon !! Christy

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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  northernwitch on 7/13/2012, 3:27 pm

Sounds like you've made the right decision. Given the seizures, I'd be re-thinking the neutering as well.

And the CKC is not much use around health issues with breeds. The Pug Club of Canada can be more useful in my experience. They do mention PDE and other genetic disorders in their Code Of Ethics:

http://www.pugcanada.com/codeofethics.html

BUT I will say that seizures can be caused by a great many things, not all of which are PDE or epilepsy. And I still don't think pugs are any more prone to seizure disorders than other breeds, with the exception of PDE.
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Thanks for the reply

Post  Confused on 7/13/2012, 4:32 pm

Health issues are always a bit of a guess because we never really know who is messing with them and keeping quiet. Sad for the breeds but we do the best we can to make it as good as possible. I do tend to get a bit mouthy when I rant so please no one take my opinions to heart. It's such an up hill battle sometimes when the ones to suffer most are the ones that have no say. But that's what we are here for right !!!!Take Care All... Have A Great Summer !!!

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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  northernwitch on 7/13/2012, 4:48 pm

Confused wrote:Health issues are always a bit of a guess because we never really know who is messing with them and keeping quiet. Sad for the breeds but we do the best we can to make it as good as possible. I do tend to get a bit mouthy when I rant so please no one take my opinions to heart. It's such an up hill battle sometimes when the ones to suffer most are the ones that have no say. But that's what we are here for right !!!!Take Care All... Have A Great Summer !!!
Lord Christy--no need to apologize for ranting here and certainly not to me. I'm a giant Big Mouth with LOTS of opinions. And let's face it, coming face to face with seizures is frightening and baffling.

I am sorry you are going through this. Be sure and let the breeder know if you haven't already. And many good thoughts out to you and your pugman.....
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Re: Health Problems In Pugs

Post  Pugsaunt on 7/13/2012, 8:44 pm

No advice, just a ton of good wishes and thoughts for you and your boy.
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