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Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

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Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Guest on 8/22/2010, 8:31 pm

I'm going to post the info here that I have on my pug Timmy...in case anyone has a recomendation. I also sent this to Dr. Greer via email today. She mentioned 2 attachments in her letter to you Amanda...are they on here to read? Thanks SO much!!!
Maryann
-----------------------
Brief:
3-yr-old male pug
2 seizures/muscle spasms 16 days apart
Stares into space
Stiff back legs after seizures…but can walk
Head pushing/resting
Lethargic

Detailed:
Timmy seizures – 3-yr-old male pug

8/6/2010 8:00am about 6 mins in length. He came to bed whined at me, he was sleeping. Was humping the air…asked him to stop, he flopped over and was flopping all around. When I thought it was done it started again & was worst. We held him & it stopped after about 6-7 mins.

8/22/10 5:00am about 6-7 minutes in length. He was again sleeping. He was on the bed & came over to me then started shaking violently. I held him & soothed him.

After both incidents he was “fine” after. He didn’t throw up like I hear dogs do after...he wasn’t panting…he went pee...later ate & drank normal. He does a lot of licking the air during it too. He licks the air other times too & has this cough thing he does…neither one seem like things that he can control. I thought this was new…but he used to “hump” the air before uncontrollably…maybe those were mini-seizures & now they are worst? He isn’t on meds. When you pet RT shoulder he is fine, when you pet LT shoulder he looks & seems sensitive. He presses his head on me, looks off blankly often... He remains aware and knows who I am during the "seizures" and he actually seeks me out...another reason I wasn't sure that it was something like epilepsy.

I see that MRIs, brain biopsy, and spinal taps are the method of detection...I would do an MRI/CT but not the other 2...I'm not sure about how conclusive tests are though... I am reading that they have Chemo iv, atopica, and cytostar that are helping???

I also saw that antinflamatories can help with swelling...but still fatal. Which one?
And, that www.rescueremedy.com was something used....but whats a gimmick ad whats not....people are always trying to sell something.

The reason I found the info on PDE was because when I read things about epilepsy in dogs and seizures the info just didn't seem to fit....so I looked up muscle spasms in pugs. He doesn’t vomit, pant, pass out…or anything like that…

I'm not willing to give up on him...and I am of course in hopes (but not denial) about him possibly having this. THANKS!!

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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Aussie Witch on 8/23/2010, 12:41 am

I'll answer you over here as well, Maryann and I am sure other people will chime in too.

If you can afford an MRI it is the best method for proper diagnosis. It could also reveal nothing. (Which would be good in some ways.) Apparently some chemo-therapy drugs ARE helping a little with PDE, but the prognosis is still grim. The standard treatment for dogs suspected of having PDE is a combination of anti-seizure meds and steroids. It does give more time in many cases but the meds do start to lose their effectiveness. Hopefully Dr Greer will get back to you very soon and advise you of the best course of action. She is very good about replying to people.

Many prayers and good thoughts for your boy. I hope to God it's not PDE - at worse, epilepsy. Please keep us posted on what's happening. There's a lot of caring people here.
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THANKS!

Post  Guest on 8/23/2010, 7:27 am

Thanks so much for your reply (both!)!!!
Last night went well. I was thinking that an MRI would be the way to go too.
I have to call my vet when they open this morning...
I love Timmy SO much...in some ways, he is all that I have in this world that is a constant.

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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Aussie Witch on 8/23/2010, 8:33 am

We understand about loving a Pug around here. Please keep us posted. hug dog
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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Stazz on 8/23/2010, 9:11 am

Oh MaryAnn !!!

I will [ray so hard for your Timmy baby. I do really hope it's nothing serious, and something totally treatable !!!!!
Hugs to you, I can't imagine how worried you are. Well, I can imagine !!! HUGS to you!
Keep us updated
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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Saira on 8/23/2010, 10:46 am

MaryannTimmy wrote:Thanks so much for your reply (both!)!!!
Last night went well. I was thinking that an MRI would be the way to go too.
I have to call my vet when they open this morning...
I love Timmy SO much...in some ways, he is all that I have in this world that is a constant.

Rona's reply was excellent so I don't have much more to add, except that I know all of us here understand how much you love your Timmy. hug dog
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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  LisaIzzyAggy on 8/24/2010, 5:21 am

I'll keep you and Timmy in my thoughts and prayers. Please keep us posted.
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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Norton's Mom on 8/24/2010, 1:09 pm

Hi Maryann and Timmy,

Welcome and I am sorry that your first visit is when Timmy is ill. This is a great group of people who are a wealth of information!

Seizures are the worst and are very scary. I won't go into my story-but I do know first hand that Rescue Remedy does help calm my dog as he is coming out of his seizures. It helps him recover quicker.
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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Amanda on 8/24/2010, 10:31 pm

Maryann, I'm sorry I'm just seeing this. If you want to PM me your email address, I'll send you the information I've received from Dr. Greer.

***********************
Amanda, mom to Nell, Lucy & Ava
www.littlebeanshop.etsy.com
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MEDICATION?????!!!!!!

Post  Guest on 8/25/2010, 9:32 pm

Thanks again so much!!!

Timmy has been his "old self" these last few days since the 2nd seizure. Interestingly enough....he seemed sluggish over the last 2/3 months and now he is ready to go and wanting to play, like he was before...so odd!!!

After speaking with my vet....he felt that Timmy could be experiencing small seizures (due to length, no drooling, no passing out, and recognizing me still...) and that he did not recommend any meds at this time. He also didn't feel this was PDE. He said the only way to really get an MRI was usually through a college...and sounded expensive....

After speaking with a friend...that knows someone with experience with seizues in pets...she advised the meds (anti-seizure) right away, smallest does. Her reasoning is that the small seizures will turn into bigger ones without meds now. She feels I am making a mistake by waiting it out...

My boyfriend had a dog as a child that was diagnosed with epileptic seizures. The dog lived 12 years after the diagnosis. They did put the dog on meds...but after (I think) 2 years they took him off because the dog had the same severness & same frequency of the seizures on the meds as he did off the meds...so what was the point of them?

WOW.....how in the world do you make this decision???!!!!
What are your thoughts on the MEDS? THANKS!!!!

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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  northernwitch on 8/25/2010, 9:39 pm

I'm not sure meds are warranted at this point. And I would recommend keppra (Levetiracetam) over phenobarbital or Potassium bromide. It's not nearly as cheap as Pheno or Potassium Bromide, but has way fewer side effects--especially in the long term.

Up here, most vets wait until a dog has had more than 2 seizures usually fairly close together--a week apart for example.

And I don't know what you feed, but I'd get Timmy on a good quality grain free kibble. There is some evidence that gluten can impact on seizure activity.
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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  pugpillow on 8/25/2010, 11:05 pm

Also - no more vaccinations! Your vet should be able to give you a medical waiver for the rabies vax.

And it is recommended that you don't talk to a dog having a seizure, even to comfort him. The auditory stimulation is too much.
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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Norton's Mom on 8/25/2010, 11:38 pm

First and foremost- please join other epi dog owners over at canine-epilepsy.com. They have a list that you can post questions to and you will be surprised at how many people are dealing with much worse. This group has been very helpful to me in dealing with Norton. I was really struggling with my dog and feeling very out of control of his seizures. I have learned to look for patterns and am prepared for pretty much everything. You really should look at having rescue remedy on hand to give right after the seizure episode. Some of us swear by an ice pack on the dogs back at the start of the seizure along with a little bit of ice cream. Seizures raise the dogs temp and sometimes the blood sugar gets out of whack as well. Therefore the ice pack for the temp and ice cream for the blood sugar.

As far as waiting for the meds- I waited for at least a year before I put Norton on any kind of meds. My vet and I took a wait and see and didn't rush to judgement. He was seizure free for 4 years and now we are struggling to find something that will work. He is on a holistic food- and I am looking at a new one by Wysong called Epi-gen. It is geared towards dogs with seizures. Feel free to PM if you have any questions. I have been dealing with this for 6 years now.
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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Aussie Witch on 8/26/2010, 1:32 am

I'm glad your vet is thinking it may NOT be PDE. I agree with taking a "wait and see" attitude to starting meds. If PDE had been confirmed by an MRI, medication would be the only, albeit temporary, relief. If it is indeed epilepsy, waiting to see how frequently the seizures come is important. Some dogs may only have a few a year and they really don't need meds. A great help in tracking what's happening is keeping records and you are obviously doing that perfectly. Your baby boy's best advocate is YOU.
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WOW!! THANKS!!

Post  Guest on 8/26/2010, 8:06 am

You are ALL a wealth of knowledge, how lucky I was to search and find this site!! I can't thank you all enough!!

I made many notes while reading through this bulletin so that I can see what I can start with. I already have 1 bottle of Rescue Remedy...but I need a 2nd for "gramma & grampa's" house. :)

Some of you talked about length of time between seizures and seeing patterns... So far both of his seizures happened while he and I were both asleep. That's different... I'm so glad that he comes and gets me though!!! What a cute & sweet momma's boy he is!! hahahaha

Timmy is still doing great. You guys are great!!!

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rescue remedy

Post  Guest on 8/26/2010, 8:17 am

With the Rescue Remedy....

I bought the "human" one before I knew about the pet one. I believe the only difference in the two is the 12% alcohol in the human one...the pet one doesn't have it.

Do you know if I can use both kinds safely?

Thanks!

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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Aussie Witch on 8/26/2010, 2:26 pm

I haven't use RR, but my gut reaction would be to only use the pet one.
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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Norton's Mom on 8/26/2010, 11:27 pm

I use the human one and since it is administered with an eye dropper you should be fine.
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PDE there is hope!

Post  splaterpea on 10/29/2010, 12:06 pm

Pug Dog Encephalitis
There is hope!!!

My pug Mika was diagnosed with PDE in May 2010. This was after severe neurologic symptoms (Circling etc) The vet did a spinal tab to confirm it was inflammation on the brain. Lab results were sent to two of South Africa's leading specialists.
Mika was immediately put on 5 X 5mg Prednisoline (cortisone) and then 0.93ml Cytosar(Chemotherapy drug) in the morning and the evening for 2 days. She started showing a great improvement and after 5 days she could come home.

She remained on 5 X 5mg Prednisoline (additional medication is required to prevent stomach ulcers when on 5 tablets) for a month, this was reduced to 2.5 for a month and she is now on 1.5 a day.

She has 0.93ml Cytosar(Chemotherapy drug) in the morning and the evening for 2 days every 21 days.

The specialist recommended that she remain on the medication indefinitely as dogs when taken of the medication have a relapse and after do not respond to the medication as well as what is needed.

There is hope
It’s been 5 months and she is doing great!
She has no new symptoms since the original incident.
(The incident has caused minimal permanent brain damage as her one front leg is not 100% but it's barely noticeable and her sight has been affected slightly)

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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Aussie Witch on 10/29/2010, 5:11 pm

Thank you for posting that information about your little guy - it's wonderful to read that he's doing well! I hope that he continues to be okay and proves that there is some hope for these little guys afflicted with this horrible disease. Please come back and continue to update us.
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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Puggered on 10/29/2010, 10:39 pm

Oh! That is good news! hug dog
We would like to follow his progress, please update regularly.
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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Pugweiser on 11/23/2010, 4:12 am

Hi Maryann

So sorry to hear what you and your precious baby are going through right now. I sent you a PM, I am on Long Island and was wondering how close you were.

I lost my Angel Pugweiser to PDE on 4/1/07, just shy of him turning 4yrs old. Im pretty sure more than 50% of the Pug Addicts here watched my Angel grow up through the happy stories and pics.........but all the friends I had made through the forum also cried and lived my worst nightmare battling PDE right with me. Its amazing how much the supportive people here can give you strength through it all. Please keep us all updated, this is one of the greatest support groups/family you can possibly have.............

I know I have been M.I.A. lately (having some personal issues) but I truly love and appreciate all of the friends I have here <3

Love & Hugs
Renee, Pugweiser (My Angel), Junior, Frito, Elliot, & Squirt
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Looking for a recommended neurologist in Florida

Post  Corkey's Mom on 8/12/2011, 9:41 pm

My 4 year old Pug has been diagnosed with Pug Dog Encephalitis (PDE) this week. After exhaustive tests to rule out everything under the sun from Addison's Disease to Cushings to spinal cord injury, the brain MRI finally revealed mild third ventricular enlargement associated with inflammtory brain disease. And the CSF revealed eosinophilic menengitis/meningoencephalitis. We proceeded to rule out fungal and viral causes such as toxoplasmosis, tick borne diseases, west nile virus, cryptococcus, etc...refusing to accept a PDE diagnosis, but are now pretty much left with no other options. I have read every piece of information online about PDE that I could get my hands on, but now I am trying to reach out to other Pug parents that might have suffered through this disease, I would like to hear about your experiences with this devastating disease. Also, I am looking for anyone who can recommend a good doggy neurologist in Florida, I want my Corkey to have the best chance at beating this disease. Please help.
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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  Aussie Witch on 8/12/2011, 10:43 pm

I am so very sorry you have this diagnosis. It sounds like you have done, and WILL do, everything for your precious baby. I urge you to start another thread asking for help as sometimes important posts and requests can get lost when they are added in old threads. The best person in the U.S. to ask for advice is Dr Kimberly Greer. She is dedicating her career to finding answers to this horrible disease. Her contact details are as follows....

Kimberly A. Greer, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
School of Natural Sciences and Mathematics
Indiana University East
2325 Chester Blvd.
Richmond, IN 47374
Office: 765-973-8445
Fax: 765-973-8430

I will "spell" out her email address so it is not picked up by spambots - kagreer @ iue . edu

She is incredibly helpful and compassionate. She is a Pug-lover and owner.

As I suggested, please start a new thread. We are an incredibly compassionate bunch around here and there is a wealth of knowledge about Pugs. Welcome. I wish it were under happier circumstances.
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Re: Pug Dog Encephalitis PDE

Post  northernwitch on 8/12/2011, 10:45 pm

I am so very sorry that you've been given this diagnosis. I'm not in Florida so can't help you with a neurologist.

This is such a hard diagnosis to come to grips with. There are several people on this board who have dealt with PDE and can give you some advice or direct you to sites that may be useful.

Unless things have changed dramatically with PDE, at this point, it can't be beaten. It is universally terminal. I hope and pray that I'm wrong and that something has changed, but I don't think it has.

Focus on having Corkey have quality of life and try not to think about the quantity. Very hard to do for us humans who think in terms of linear time--but dogs live in the moment.

Again, I'm sorry that you are confronting this. Blessings to you and to Corkey
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