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Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  ayleash on 6/17/2011, 9:07 am

pugpillow wrote: It is normal to weep and rail and question. But this too shall pass and you'll be left with wonderful memories and his pawprint indelibly stamped on your heart.

and it is IMPORTANT to weep and rail.... (imho)...

I love the pawprint on the heart image too.. very true.. even in sadness, wonderful truths.

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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Rebecca and the Pugs on 6/17/2011, 9:54 am

Donna... it is not your fault. I wrestled with these same feelings with Jewel.

I feel like June was sent to you to be there for Viv, and to be there for you. June NEEDS you. Please don't shuffle her to another home because of your grief. Let Viv and June show you the massive amount of love they have for you. Bubba had always had pugs around him, and when Clara died, he was all alone. He was anxious and depressed. I got my 2 hospice pugs a week after Clara went to the bridge. It was such a blessing to Bubba, and caring for them gave me something to divert my attention to. Please reconsider for Viv.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Tyson&LuLu'sMom on 6/17/2011, 9:56 am

Oh Donna, I've been thinking about you non stop for the last few days. I can't imagine what you're going through. I hope that you can look for support from Viv and June, they both need you just as you need them right now. I'm sure it seems unbearable and that the pain will never go away. You have to go on living, and Rupert will never be truly gone, he lives on in your memories and your heart. Forever.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  dieselsmom on 6/17/2011, 10:18 am

Donna, you can't watch them 24/7 - it's simply not possible. Don't ever doubt what a wonderful pug mom you are. And don't ever doubt that you didn't do everything you could for him. Rupert loved you - he knew you loved him. He doesn't blame you, you shouldn't blame yourself either.

It will get better, it seems like it never will, but it will, trust me. When Kayla died, I wanted to go to sleep and never wake up. Just pull the covers over my head and not have to face the world anymore. But that's not possible. You have to keep on going because Viv still needs you, as does June. June has done so well with you; you have to ultimately decide what's best for you and June, but I think you should keep her with you. She's come a long way because of your love and care and sending her to another foster home just might set her back. Plus, I would imagine Viv is enjoying the company now, since Rupert's gone.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Eph91 on 6/17/2011, 11:06 am

Donna, I agree with everything posted here, and it is not healthy for you or your family for you to blame yourself. Even if we COULD watch them 24/7, which we cannot, you may have been in the yard with him and not noticed a sting (if that indeed was what happened) if he'd had no immediate reaction; and even if he had, you'd probably have given him Benadryl or something logical like that. No one could have predicted the tragic outcome. I know you are overwhelmed with pain, but please be fair to yourself. You are a wonderful pugmom and did nothing wrong. Big hugs to you.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Nan and BAGS on 6/17/2011, 12:16 pm

Eph91 wrote:Donna, I agree with everything posted here, and it is not healthy for you or your family for you to blame yourself. Even if we COULD watch them 24/7, which we cannot, you may have been in the yard with him and not noticed a sting (if that indeed was what happened) if he'd had no immediate reaction; and even if he had, you'd probably have given him Benadryl or something logical like that. No one could have predicted the tragic outcome. I know you are overwhelmed with pain, but please be fair to yourself. You are a wonderful pugmom and did nothing wrong. Big hugs to you.

*points up* YEA. What She said!

If I could echo that statement - you will just drive yourself mad with "whatifs". Seriously you will. I do understand the need to know what happened - believe me I do. But you cant concern yourself until you actually "know". If that makes sense? Believe me - I have been in the same way - and it takes a lot to put one step forward because you want to go 20 steps back - but Sweetie - you seriously are the best Puggy mom ever and Viv, June and Hubby need you. We are not guilting you at all we are just stating a fact - it is a hard fact to understand because I have been that way to - but Viv and June and Hubby are your healers at this moment (besides us of course!)

I recall when i lost the hubby and Buddy - I would just have these fits of crying - I mean it would come out of no where and it would just go on and on. A wise Nun friend of mine advised that it is totally okay to go through this - but - so that you can actually take a bath, go to the bathroom and eat, you have to parcel out - or "schedule" your grief. It is hard as hell to do but it is well worth it. It will also help you cope with the whole situation. One starts out with baby steps - and than it gets easier.

Remember there are about 7 stages of grief - and they tend not to go in each order. So give yourself the time to heal because IT WILL BE OKAY and we will help you through this. It may seem like the end of the world right now - but I tend to look at death this way and maybe it will give you some comfort: - it is a new window to a different world where you got an amazing Puggy Angel looking out for you. :)

I know it is hard to think that way because it is just.so.raw. But I know you can do this woman!!!

*biggest hugs ever*
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Saira on 6/17/2011, 12:24 pm

Everyone has said very wise things. Donna, the only thing I can add is don't make any decisions right now. Just let yourself grieve and heal.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Not Afraid on 6/17/2011, 12:52 pm

Donna, a bee sting is beyond your control. You have no control over what a bee does and, unless you kept Rupert in a plastic bubble, you couldn't prevent this from happening. Even watching him 100% of the time would not have prevented a bee sting.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Maryjo on 6/17/2011, 1:36 pm

Donna wrote:if it was a bee sting then it was my fault,
..................
I hate myself for this.

If it was a bee sting, then it was the bee sting from over a week ago (the one you posted about). It takes time for a bleed-out to happen, and you did everything you were supposed to do during that incident.

Let your grief have some time to heal. You know that many of us have 'been there, done that', so you have lots of shoulders to cry on, rant & rave on, or just to lean against.

We will always be here for you. I'll PM my phone number to you.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  GingerSnap on 6/17/2011, 1:46 pm

Donna, absolutely none of this is your fault. I truly don't think that he was stung by another bee. If that was the case, that would've been the first thing the vet said: "He had another allergic reaction, and that caused internal bleeding." (I can't quite make a medical connection between the two, anyway, but my point is that that would've been the easiest way to explain it, and that's not how he (she?) explained it, so I truly don't think that's what happened.) But even if that were the case, it still wouldn't be your fault, because we can't keep our kids in a bubble.

But from the description you were able to piece together, it sounds like he had an abnormality on his structure that no one knew about, and that no one would've even looked for, in that his kidney was somehow attached to his liver. And somehow, they came apart, which tore something, causing bleeding. And none of that could have been predicted or prevented by you or your vet.

Hopefully when your husband picks him up, he'll be able to find out a little bit more, and that will allow you to get more closure. For now, love on Viv-- pug fur can absorb a lot of tears-- and keep June nearby. You are understandably broken right now, but as you come back to something approaching normal again, those faces and those eyes and those wiggly bodies will help pull you out of the darkness.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Brenda on 6/17/2011, 1:59 pm

Donna, my heart is breaking for you. Yes a lot of good advice has been given. You didn't know me when my Kiwi died. She was 7 years old. She died of pancreatitis after a 3 week stay in a 24 hour specialty clinic. And - she probably got it from me feeding her BBQ chicken left overs. Talk about the guilt. And I still feel guilty and always will. But - as said, things will get better.

The "surprise" deaths are so hard. I've been thru Kiwi's and also been thru letting my old pugs go when they couldn't be on this earth anymore. Kiwi's death still haunts me and it's been 10 years. I am not telling you this so you think you will feel as bad as you do for 10 more years, but to tell you that the pain lessens with time. I remembered the day she died every year for about 5 years and then one September I had realized I had forgotten the date in August, it just went by as any other day.

Let yourself grieve and don't let anyone try and tell you how to grieve. Take your time, and take care of yourself.

Feel free to email me if you want. brenda@rescuepug.com
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Renee on 6/17/2011, 2:23 pm

Donna,

I think many of us have been in a situation where everything we did was right, and still, the wrong thing happened. And, we always have something to second guess. I felt such intense guilt when Paisley died earlier this year and it was unexpected. I did everything right, and we were only trying to help... and she still died.

If it was a bee sting that he had an allergic reaction to - then I must reassure you that there is nothing you could have done different. My husband has severe allergies, and it is nearly impossible to always eliminate any potential exposure. A bee could have flown in a window just as easily as if you were outside. Don't blame yourself! Rupert would not want to be watching you from up above and seeing how much you are blaming yourself.

Don't give up! You still have so much to give to the pugs out there that need you.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Mel on 6/17/2011, 3:06 pm

Donna wrote:My husband just got back from the vet and they said it was an aneurysm in his stomach.
Still can't warp my head around it. did I say it was on my birthday. I know I've said this before but I loved that dog more than anything, seriously if I family member died I don't know if I would be grieving this badly its awful to say but that is how I feel.I just want to crawl in a rock and die.

Donna - that sounds like some freak thing that there's no way you could have prevented. I know how hard it is for you right now. You're missing your baby boy and you just want him back. It's so tough. All I can say is what you're feeling is very normal. We love these little creatures so much and they give unconditional love back in spades. It will take time to recover. And that's not to say you will fully. There will always be a special place in your heart for Rupert. He was a gift. He taught you so much about love. He WAS a family member. We all understand what you're going through and are here for you.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Aussie Witch on 6/17/2011, 3:29 pm

Oh Donna, this is absolute proof that nothing could have been done. NOTHING. Even in a human it is unlikely they could have been saved. These things happen without warning. The grief you are going through is something I know I have experienced - you really feel you just want to go to sleep and never wake up. But honestly, you do get up. You are on auto-pilot for awhile and your brain is completely frazzled and you can't find joy in anything, but Viv and June are going to make you smile. And soon thoughts of Rupert are going to make you smile. And your birthday will eventually become a day to celebrate Rupert's life, not mourn his death.

One day at a time, Donna. You're not alone. We understand and mourn with you.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Pugsaunt on 6/17/2011, 3:51 pm

Donna, my heart is aching for you. I can only echo what Rona and Mel have said. Rupert will always be in your heart and, in time, your birthday will be a day to celebrate both your life and Rupert's life. Nan is right, the grieving process does not follow any logical order, and everyone grieves in their own way. You are and will be in my thoughts and prayers.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Maryjo on 6/17/2011, 4:24 pm

Donna wrote:My husband just got back from the vet and they said it was an aneurysm in his stomach..

(((Donna))) That is absolutely a horrible thing to have happen, but there is NO WAY you could have done anything to prevent it. Probably like an aneurysm in a human's brain- one of those freak things that are awful, but can't be stopped ahead of time.

Of course you are grieving and hurting, that is certainly expected. Just please try to realize you couldn't have prevented that. If you feel the need, and please give it some time, consider seeing a grief counselor. That could help.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Norton's Mom on 6/17/2011, 4:45 pm

Donna everyone is grieving right along with you. As I sat in traffic that evening, I was crying over your loss. Your pain became our pain. We all know how much you loved your Rupert. He was a special little pug. There are the stages of grief with the first one being shock. Know that when you feel so very alone and think that no one understands what you are feeling, know that this board knows exactly how you feel. Many of us have walked this path as well. To have lost a pet so special so suddenly is beyond reason. Take the time to heal and know that Viv will be sad as well. She needs June right now as much as you need Viv. They will get you through this.

I lost a horse to a stomach aneurysm. It was so sudden and never have I felt so helpless. There was absolutely nothing I could have done to save his life. The vet was there beside me and he told me the same thing.

It doesn't seem like it, but it will get better. Hug
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  lola's mom on 6/17/2011, 7:17 pm

Donna my heart is aching for you. I can't get you out of my mind I really can't. We are all grieving with you and here for you.

When my grandfather passed away in 2004 I thought I could just die. I would be out and fine and then have a major breakdown wherever we were. We were so close and I enjoyed him so much. The best thing I ever did during that time was to join a rescue and begin fostering. It kept my mind busy and it really filled an emptiness that I had.

June is a special little girl and she is flourishing with you. You have a big heart and Viv and June know that. Take comfort in your girls right now, you need them and they need you.

I am so sorry you are going through this. Rupert was a special boy and you are the best pug Mom. He will always be a part of you. xo
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Nan and BAGS on 6/17/2011, 7:59 pm

Oh man. I am sorry Donna. But I can't echo enough with what everyone else has said- this was not your fault and it was a freak occurrence. Life is not fair at all.

I am a firm believer that things happen for a reason and people/animals come into your life for a reason- I know you can't see that right now but give the process time. And ya that is another sucky thing you can't be a robot and just turn off your emotions because believe me- humans just don't work that way. When my Dad died, I never really dealt with it because it was just so close to my wedding. When my hubby died 5 years later. Man. I can feel it like yesterday. The raw pain. But you know what Donna? You can get through this and you will be a-okay! Rupert is still very much there. He lives on in you, your hubby and Viv & June! He is there all around you. In every sun beam and in every puggy look the girls give you. He is there.

*hugsssss*
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  ForeverHopper on 6/17/2011, 8:56 pm

Donna, I know you pain all to well. What you are going through brings back hard memories for me when I lost my baby Hopper a month shy of turning 3. I was planning for his birthday. He had a severe uti and I didnt notice it until 3 days later. He was at a new vet and ER vet several times in a week. I was on 2-3 hour sleep a day caring for my baby. Rubbing him until he could sleep. Both the vet and ER vet told me to get him neutered to help the swelling go down so he could pee. We scheduled surgery the next day. I stayed home with him the following day to be with him. My husband was home and had to run an errand. He asked me to go with him to ge some fresh air. I was adamant about not leaving Hopper's side. When my husband left, I sat down to eat a hot dog for lunch. I gave him and my other two boys a small bite. Hopper ate one and spit out his second one. He was in his crate to keep him still. I knew he needed mommy time so I put everything away. I went to relieve myself and as I sat down, I heard a curdling cry from him. Such a cry I never heard ever from any animal. I ran out and he was laying on his side stiff but breathing hard. He has no reaction in his eyes. I pulled him out and called the vet, they said to get him down ASAP. I called my husband to come back home. He was gone for only 20 minutes. As I put on my shoes, I knelt down to check him on the sofa. He stopped breathing. I tried CPR and failed. I literally heard his last heartbeat. Dear God, it all seems like yesterday and it's been 6 years now.

I grabbed him, keys and threw him in the car. I went to a vet 5 minutes from me but he was gone. My heart was literally ripped from me. My baby boy. The life of the house. My little troublemaker. The necropsy was inconclusive. After talking to 3-4 vets from my vet to independent vets, they all concluded he had an aneurysm in the brain from how I described what happened. The brain was never sent to be checked. I did some research and he was on 7 meds for a 20lb boy. Three of the meds said in a rare case, it can cause blood clots. OMG, the guilt I felt for not knowing, learning and being more responsible.

I was in a depression for 8 months. I couldnt eat popcorn during those 8 months as it was his favorite treat. I got a baby girl pug, Phoebe, two months later and even though she helped eased the pain, I still felt tremendous pain. My husband came close to making me see a counselor. My life literally stopped. I've made comments about if I died the next day, I would not be afraid to go because I knew Hopper would be waiting for me. I scared my husband to death. Donna, I never shared this to the public but only to few close friends.

I went through months of guilt, blame, shame. I felt I was an aweful mom. I should've known better about his uti. I could've done more by knowing more. I had to take sleep aid to help me sleep for months. The mourning you are going through is all natural. As much as it hurts and as much as we want to just die to be with them, you will be ok in due time. Lots of friend and family support will get you through this.

I've done things to help me cope losing my baby. I made a toybox with his name on it and put all his belongings in it. I wrote a letter to my pug-son and told him how I felt and I placed it in his box. Not even my husband ever read it nor will he. I made a scrapbook of his 3 precious years of life with me. It's been years and I light a tealight for him everynight without missing a night. Now I light it for him, my late Chipper and my cat, Mattie. My therapy is also helping other cope with their loss. My savior was finding rescue and I started fostering. Giving back to the breed I love. I knew Hopper would want me to. My first step to getting well is when I was able to eat that first piece of popcorn my Hopper loved...8 months after his passing.

I'm so sorry this is long but please understand what you are going through is natural but very painful. You WILL get through this with all of our support. Please trust us Donna. I have never met you or your babies but I have a bond with all my pug friends that is different from my normal friends. Many many hugs to you.


Last edited by ForeverHopper on 6/18/2011, 7:24 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : spellcheck)
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  everdream on 6/17/2011, 9:27 pm

The feelings you are having are very much like how I felt when I lost my darling LuLing at only 4 years old. She was absolutely perfect one minute and at death's door the next. And I never got any answers as to what happened (I did not have an autopsy done - I had already spent thousands trying to save her). I was so devastated I cried all the time, every day, at work, everywhere. And before I could even begin to recover, two and a half weeks later, I lost Nikki at 7 years old to congestive heart failure (probably brought on prematurely due to having been HW+ before being rescued).

I thought I was going to die. I couldn't believe what was happening...what was *I* doing wrong??? Nothing. In fact I went above and beyond trying to save them both, but I sure did beat myself up for a long, long time. Just as you have described it, I could not get my head around what had happened to LuLing and how I could have lost two fairly young, beautiful, precious pugs that I loved so much so close together. It seemed so cruel and unfair. But thank goodness for Mimi and Emmy. They made sure I didn't just crawl in a hole. They were the best thing for me and each other. And when Mimi became an angel too, Emmy was there to help me through that.

I know it's hard to believe that anyone could possibly understand what you are feeling right now - or the true depth of it - but we do. And I honestly do understand what you mean about this hurting more than if it had been a family member. LuLing and Nikki's deaths were more traumatic and took me longer to deal with than when my mother passed away. Many people would probably think I am crazy and uncaring or an awful daughter for saying that, but due to too many things to go into in this email, and as hard as my mom's passing was, it's the truth. These little pugs were my babies and part of my life everyday, and it ripped my heart out.

It hurts like hell, but allow yourself to grieve. Then allow yourself to feel the love and happy memories again for your sweet boy. Love on your precious Viv and that sweet little June. Pug love is the best medicine there is.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  ayleash on 6/17/2011, 11:22 pm

You are loved.

Rupert loved you... and you loved and love him still... and he does you...

(I can't see to type more).
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Not Afraid on 6/18/2011, 3:57 am

Donna, I'm so glad you found out what caused it. Somehow, for me, it always eases the frantic questions and allows me to concentrate on my grief. I've been through a few really big losses of my fur children in my life - the short term or surprise deaths are the hardest and I STILL get pangs of grieve for my Jack and my Dexter (who was my heart cat). You never completely get over it, but you learn how to manage the pain so you can live your life again. You may find that Rupert "sends" you some very special puggies that need you more than anything. I think Dexter is responsible for all of the cats and kittens I've rescued. (Now I joke that it's time to stop!) Wink

You have so much to give to Viv - and to June while she is with you. Love them with all you've got. Rupert would have wanted you to do that. You're in my thoughts constantly. If you need ANYTHING, please let me know.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Snifter&Toddy on 6/18/2011, 6:03 am

I'm glad you have found out what it was. As the others have said, there is nothing you can do about an aneurysm. Nothing you did, or did not, do made any difference to this very sad outcome. A close friend of ours lost his brother to an aneurysm some years ago and it was a terrible shock.

My heart breaks for you.
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Re: Help me understand what happened with Rupert...please

Post  Lindsey on 6/18/2011, 10:05 am

Saira wrote:Everyone has said very wise things. Donna, the only thing I can add is don't make any decisions right now. Just let yourself grieve and heal.

Saira sums it up.

Donna....I don't have any words of wisdom to offer. I can just offer my prayers and heartache for you. I'm thinking about you...
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