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To snip or not to snip

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To snip or not to snip

Post  Stitch Chan on 10/12/2011, 7:06 am

Were at a crossroads, stitch is old enough now to get neutered, but were nervous about it, so many horror stories online about pugs dying during surgery, etc. Anyone have any advice? I could really use some right now. Stitch has gotten quite aggressive since he started his little dog puberty, lots of humping, peeing everywhere, and he gets very rough with lilo to a point that we cannot leave them unattended together in the same room.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  DappleDoxieStaff on 10/12/2011, 7:35 am

Every surgery has its risks ... for every breed. The stats from the stories you read are the absolute minority. The reality is ... with the right anesthetic, an endotracheal tube, and a knowledgeable vet - pugs sail through surgery every day.
Make sure your vet is well-versed in brachycephalic dogs and make the appointment for Stitch. Nemo the Neophyte Doxie just had his danglies removed. He was marking and humping and becoming increasingly obnoxious. The marking and humping have stopped. He is still hyperactive and obnoxious. LOL That is just him. After the anesthesia really wore off, you'd never know he'd been to the vet.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  CSollers on 10/12/2011, 8:20 am

DappleDoxieStaff wrote:Every surgery has its risks ... for every breed. The stats from the stories you read are the absolute minority. The reality is ... with the right anesthetic, an endotracheal tube, and a knowledgeable vet - pugs sail through surgery every day.
Make sure your vet is well-versed in brachycephalic dogs and make the appointment for Stitch. Nemo the Neophyte Doxie just had his danglies removed. He was marking and humping and becoming increasingly obnoxious. The marking and humping have stopped. He is still hyperactive and obnoxious. LOL That is just him. After the anesthesia really wore off, you'd never know he'd been to the vet.



Danglies...BWAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAA!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  pugsandkids on 10/12/2011, 8:56 am

I know its scary, but neutering also cuts back on other risks. Testicular cancer, him running off when there is a female in heat (did you know that dogs have STD's?) creating unwanted puppies and/or getting hit by a car in the process, and I promise you in the end you will have a better dog.

Years and years ago we bought our first dog, a beautiful lab with a great show/working pedigree. Between his lineage, and that old school thought that he should be intact we did not neuter him until he was 7. He was a great dog, but a huge runner. We were constantly having to spring him from jail. He jumped fences, bolted, and just didn't listen worth a damn once he decided to go somewhere. At nine years old he pushed passed me at the front door and took off. We searched for weeks and months. Never found him. Do I know for sure that he ran because he was intact? No, but the chances are pretty good that there was an in heat female he was after.

Boston was neutered as soon as possible. He is calm, listens, shows no interest in taking off, and is an amazing example of a companion dog. Once again, all because he is neutered? Probably not. However, he never had to deal with the distractions provided by testosterone. It does not even occur to him that a female is in heat and he should go get some.

Looking back, I really regret not having neutered our lab sooner. He was a great dog, with a lot going for him. But his balls got in the way of his brain.

Whenever my 15 year old comments on what a good dog Boston is I say "Its cause I had his balls chopped off, it works really well for dogs and horses..." Wink
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  Stitch Chan on 10/12/2011, 9:02 am

Although there is some great great response in this thread, but as a man im kinda sorta regretting the thread now........lol
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  Rebecca and the Pugs on 10/12/2011, 9:26 am

pugsandkids wrote:

Looking back, I really regret not having neutered our lab sooner. He was a great dog, with a lot going for him. But his balls got in the way of his brain.

)
My brother's lab suffered from this. They almost lost him 2 different times that he got out. He was hit by a car and had to have pins put in his front leg. They have a big pond behind their house and he slipped through the ice (he was probably 10 or 12 at this time and could barely move from arthritis). If it hadn't been for a good samaritan pulling him out, he would have drowned. He was picked up by animal control more than once. He would get into bread cubes that the neighbors left for the ducks and would constantly have ear infections from the yeast. This drove me crazy, because all of these things could have been prevented if he was neutered. He didn't breed Ace. He didn't show Ace. He just didn't want to have him neutered because he projected his own feelings onto his dog. He was very lucky that Ace lived to an old age, but to me the risk is not worth it.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  PugLady3 on 10/12/2011, 9:45 am

pugsandkids wrote:I know its scary, but neutering also cuts back on other risks. Testicular cancer, him running off when there is a female in heat (did you know that dogs have STD's?) creating unwanted puppies and/or getting hit by a car in the process, and I promise you in the end you will have a better dog.

Enlarged prostate is another possible side effect of not neutering. When we got Duke from the shelter, he was intact & about 7-8 years old. His prostate was enlarged, which the vet said played a part in his incontinence problems. His prostate has gone down since he was neutered but he still leaks urine occasionally while he sleeps.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  Saira on 10/12/2011, 9:48 am

I know surgery is scary, but in the end you have to do what's best for your pets. We've had almost 500 pugs come through the rescue since I have been involved, and we haven't had any issues with spay and neuters. Not to say there's not a risk, there always is when you do any sort of surgery, but you can minimize these risks by getting a good vet knowledgable in brachy breeds and doing pre-anesthesia bloodwork. The majority of time, when something does go wrong, there is an underlying issue.

Neutering might not be a cure all for aggressive and/or marking behavior, but it can go a long way to curbing a lot of these behaviors, IMO. Obviously being in rescue, I'm always going to advocate spaying/neutering a pet-there is just no room for even one oops litter in this world!

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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  TNPUGMOMOF3 on 10/12/2011, 10:26 am

I waited to have Odin, my English Mastiff, neutered till he was over 3 yrs old due to arguments about increased bone density with increased testosterone to help support the massive frame of the Mastiff. He never humped or marked, but I knew for health reasons he would be better off getting them removed. It was a little harder for him to recover, I believe due to his size, but I really think he's just a tad neurotic. Unfortunately that hasn't changed at all either!

I have fostered over 20 pugs and have had all mine spayed or neutered at 6 mos or whenever they came into rescue. I have had lots of boys and they recover easier than the females, just cause it's a less invasive surgery for them. I always get pain meds for both and it will help for the first day or two and then they don't need them. None of them, other than Odin, even messed with the incission as it healed. Again, Odin was a hot mess. Shocked

Get him neutered. It's his balls, not your's, and he has no idea what they are or what they are for and he'll never miss them.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  Tyson&LuLu'sMom on 10/12/2011, 11:40 am

I would highly recommend doing the full panel of pre-anesthetic bloodwork, just to make sure there isn't anything lurking that might cause complications during surgery.

Otherwise, I like Marci's point-he doesn't need them and won't miss them.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  Aussie Witch on 10/12/2011, 12:32 pm

Yep, everyone has given you all the great reasons for removing the dangly bits! And, just like all men, place your hands over YOUR dangly bits while we discuss this. We promise we'll let you keep 'em. Laughing
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  Renee on 10/12/2011, 12:33 pm

Yep, get him neutered.

The risks of surgical complications would come from some pre-existing or lurking condition, not the neuter itself. Like everyone has said, do the bloodwork and have your vet follow the proper protocol for anesthesia and Stitch should be fine.

Honestly, I know that there are a lot more things that play into it, but in comparing my pug that was neutered at five months, to my one that was not neutered until he was 2 years old.. there is a big difference in the amount of marking, humping and in general seeing their "lipstick" come out.

Marci is right - its not your balls, so you don't need to feel an attachment to them, and Stitch won't miss them at all.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  SacramentoPugs on 10/12/2011, 1:41 pm

At our shelter's high-volume spay/neuter clinic, they perform 50 to 60 s/n surgeries every day. The number of complications are miniscule compared to the thousands of animals they alter every year -- complications are very, very rare. The benefits FAR outweigh the risks. Make that appointment! Very Happy
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  Maryjo on 10/12/2011, 2:26 pm

Marci wrote:Get him neutered. It's his balls, not yours, and he has no idea what they are or what they are for and he'll never miss them.
What Marci said. Too often we project our feelings into our dogs. He won't know what he's missing and he'll be a happier, healthier pug for it.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  Pugsaunt on 10/12/2011, 3:00 pm

I have to echo what everyone else has said. It won't make Stitch a couch potato (more than any pug is), he won't miss them, and you will save a bunch on rug cleaning. I know that it is scary when our furkids go under anesthesia - I have been a total mess every time Penny has been under. Find out how many brachycephalic (smoosh-faced) dogs your vet has performed surgery on, how many had problems, what the vet is using for induction and anesthesia, insist on a complete pre-surgical physical with complete bloodwork, and demand that Stitch be monitored with someone watching the monitors during the surgery. And remember to breathe. Your bits are safe.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  smoochieface on 10/12/2011, 3:37 pm

This is a very pro spay and neutering place for all the reasons stated above.

Here are some good guidelines for how to handle anesthesia with a pug -- very good questions to ask your vet and my vet has always appreciated having an intelligent discussion about his surgical procedures.

1. Pre-op bloodwork. All vets should require pre-op bloodwork either morning of the surgery or shortly before surgery. With my vet, his pre-op blood work is good for 30 days but he also always tests kidney function morning of.

2. Preferred anesthesia should be sevoflourane or isoflourane

3. Preferred induction should be with valium or ketamine.

4. Vet should utilize a pulse oximeter and continuous ECG with constant monitoring.

If your vet understands and follows these procedures, then you should be in generally good hands with respect to anesthesia protocol (which is where you face the most increased surgical risk with the pug breed). The actual surgery isn't any more risky for pugs than for any other breed.

The above list is something that was put forth by one of the members of our board years ago. She is an M.D.

Good luck! You will be doing the right thing by your pug in the long run.

ETA: Remember that it will take about one month after the surgery for the testosterone to dissapate from his system, possibly longer the older he gets. You won't see an immediate behavioral effect from the neutering, but it will come in time.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  Stitch Chan on 10/12/2011, 5:18 pm

Thank you everyone for the wordsof wisdom, Although i find it funny to project, its not the reason in this. We are terrified of losing stitch to something preventable. Your posts help me and my wife feel more at ease about it and were goingto discuss itwith our vet.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  smoochieface on 10/12/2011, 5:59 pm

The only relatively "common" complication during neutering is if your pug has an undescended testicle. They won't know until they open him up. Testicles in most dogs have descended by 6-7 months. If one or more testicle has not yet descended, it takes a little longer to locate it. I have neutered four male pugs and one of them had this problem. They eventually found the undescended testicle buried in his abdomen. It required two extra small incisions to try and locate the little bugger and, as a result, it took him maybe a day longer to recover than my other boys. Other than that, it's a pretty easy surgery. The puppies especially heal so quickly.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  Rallypug on 10/12/2011, 6:27 pm

I totally agree with all the posters about "getting the job done!" I was terrified about losing Stubby while he was under but the vet talked me through it. She is very experienced with small breeds and had done many Pugs before. I felt much better after I had the additional information and knew what was going to happen.

Should an accidental breeding occur are you prepared to accept the responsibility of finding homes for all the puppies, caring for them should they end up not working out in their new homes and providing the vet care they will need until adopted? Unaltered male dogs have the uncanny ability to slip out, find the object of the affection and voila.....baby Pugs/________ or as my friend who works at the SPCA calls them Municipal Breeds or Daddy was a travelling man dogs. My vet also told me neutered/spayed dogs live longer and wander way less. Good luck with your beloved dog and making the right choices for all of you.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  Puggered on 10/13/2011, 2:48 am

Snip. It is in his best interests. That is all that should matter.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  pugpillow on 10/13/2011, 5:03 pm

"But his balls got in the way of his brain."

Hmmmm ... that could be a well-used tag line in Washington. Maybe neutering should be a prerequisite for running for political office.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  thminis on 10/13/2011, 7:37 pm

Snip, definitely snip.

It's for all of the reasons everyone has stated. In addition to Kendie's list, most reputable vets keep pets on IV fluids during the procedure (keeps their blood pressure stable). Routine dog neuters are super easy.

Like everyone's said, a neutered dog is not driven by their hormones and is not worried about finding a mate. Less incidences of enlarged prostate and no testicular cancer. I'm a vet tech, and I've seen a dog get a mystery infection that made his testicles inflamed and swollen, and he needed emergency surgery to neuter him. Not only is it commonly more expensive to neuter a larger, older dog, it's a harder recovery. When they are this age is the best possible time.

ALSO, we waited to neuter Reggie until he was about 7-8 months. He started to mark in the house, and it has popped up since then. It can easily become a habit, and even after the neuter it takes about 30 days to have the hormones leave the body.
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  Stitch Chan on 10/14/2011, 11:55 pm

Well we just returned from the vet for stitches prescreening, his danglies are getting removed next saturday. The vet that has been with Stitch since he was 2 months old is doing the surgery.

-The induction is propofol
-The maintaining agent is isofluorane .

Stitch will be given a blood panel, and x-ray prior to surgery(Here in japan they do your dogs blood work in 20 minutes). During the surgery they have an extra person in the room to monitor heart rate, IV, and to maintain medications incase of emergency during surgery. They will also be testing stitch for allergies to everything they will be using during surgeries to prevent any unforeseen issues from popping up.

Our vet loves stitch, she is always telling us he is here favorite patient!
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Re: To snip or not to snip

Post  Pugsaunt on 10/15/2011, 3:16 pm

I think it is going to be harder on you when Stitch is having his bits taken off than it will be on him. We all worry and fret when our furkids are under anesthesia. And I will be thinking of him and you next Saturday. Hugs to your handsome boy.
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