Do you remember Lulu "Cooking Monster"?

juneau hunter 6/8/2010, 8:04 am

Jade used to post on here quite awhile ago. I don't know why she doesn't anymore, but when we were trading FB information with everyone, she was added to my account. This morning she commented on not knowing that I had another pug, and I asked her about Lulu.

She wrote back that Lulu had a seizure and died a couple of weeks ago!!! I am feeling pretty sad about this because I know that she loved that little old lady pug. I think that Lulu was about 10+ years old but Jade only had her a year.

It makes me sad that someday I will have to say goodbye to my heart dog Juneau and the ol' chunk of Rosco. I've never had a dog, therefore, I've never lost a dog. It just kills me to even think about it.

Run free, "Cooking Monster." Hugs and prayers to Jade.

Snifter&Toddy 6/8/2010, 10:32 am

I saw elsewhere that Lulu had passed on and I was sorry to see this. Run free, Lulu.

Aussie Witch 6/8/2010, 3:02 pm

Yes, it's very sad that Lulu passed and you can only wish she had had a longer life.

Pugsaunt 6/9/2010, 3:13 pm

That is very sad about Lulu.

Guest 7/8/2010, 7:32 pm

I don't know anything about Jade's mental state or whether she is difficult to deal with. But one thing I DO know, she and Scott loved LuLu with all of their hearts and were heartbroken when she died. A rescue dog could do far worse than have a life like they gave LuLu.

Personal conflicts shouldn't smear the ability or reputation of a person to love and devote themselves to a dog. There were few more loving and devoted to their dogs than they were to LuLu.

Take care,
Lisa

Pugsavers 7/8/2010, 8:10 pm

6 Pack of Pugs wrote:

Personal conflicts shouldn't smear the ability or reputation of a person to love and devote themselves to a dog.

I don't believe it is "personal conflicts" that have colored most of the people's opinions here. It is facts, actions and caring about the welfare of the pugs above all when placing them in a home and protecting those who cannot protect themselves.

Guest 7/8/2010, 8:20 pm

I guess I haven't heard the same facts as the rest of you.

I would stake my life on the fact that they adored LuLu though. Can anyone give evidence that they did not love and care for her?

Take care,
Lisa

northernwitch 7/8/2010, 9:52 pm

6 Pack of Pugs wrote:I guess I haven't heard the same facts as the rest of you.

I would stake my life on the fact that they adored LuLu though. Can anyone give evidence that they did not love and care for her?

Take care,
Lisa

The issue has been how she has dealt with other dogs that she adopted from rescue and how her stories about why these dogs didn't work changed from time to time, person to person and forum to forum. I cannot speak to how she treated Lulu, but she was certainly not an upstanding owner/adopter in her dealings with rescue.

And it had nothing to do with personality conflicts since the parties involved didn't know her from a hole in the wall and had no reason to be prejudiced against her prior to her extremely poor showing with a rescued pug.

The internet is a poor place to make quick judgements about people's character and ability. Deciding someone is or isn't a good pug owner based on what they post on a forum is the short road to heartbreak. I've been badly disappointed in many people who come across as solid citizens on a pug forum and yet, when you get to really know them, realize that they aren't in fact good dog owners or, in some cases, even decent people..

Rescues need to be doubly careful about such judgements--pro and con--as the dogs rely on us to find them APPROPRIATE homes that can deal with a breed that is both needy and often expensive. Even with an application, a home visit, reference checks and ongoing contact, our rescue has had the odd poor dog owner slip through to our great regret. I would never, ever place a dog based on what I know of someone from a pug forum.

And since I'm letting it all hang out here, Lisa, your willingness to assume much about people based on what they post on an internet forum scares the crapola out of me as a rescuer. You seem to use the internet as much for placement as for anything else and frankly, that is bad rescue work.

Guest 7/8/2010, 10:22 pm

And you base your judgements on personal contact with her? She was heading to Canada to look for a dog? I was willing to drive out and meet with her personally and do home check and interview. I keep in mind there is one side, another side and a truth which normally lies in the middle. Perspective makes all the difference.

Possibly a review of my posts is in order before you make the latter judgment. But you are entitled to your opinion and so am I.

Take care,
Lisa

Norton's Mom 7/8/2010, 10:31 pm

6 Pack of Pugs wrote:
There were few more loving and devoted to their dogs than they were to LuLu.
Lisa

Actually Lisa- I would venture to say that there are many here on this board who are very devoted to their dogs. To assume that few could love their dog/pets more than Lulu's owners is really kind of an insult. Many of us here deal with very intense issues with our pugs. My pug suffers from seizures. He has meds three times a day at very strict intervals. I constantly worry that he won't get his meds and will suffer from something if I was to not make it home in time. I could make a rather long list of pug owners who would are very devoted and would do anything thing they needed to for their dog.

northernwitch 7/8/2010, 10:40 pm

6 Pack of Pugs wrote:And you base your judgements on personal contact with her? She was heading to Canada to look for a dog? I was willing to drive out and meet with her personally and do home check and interview. I keep in mind there is one side, another side and a truth which normally lies in the middle. Perspective makes all the difference.

Possibly a review of my posts is in order before you make the latter judgment. But you are entitled to your opinion and so am I.

Take care,
Lisa

I base my judgments on what a reputable rescue experienced with her. What people who have done this work for years experienced with her. On the fact that she told one story on one forum, another story on another forum, a third story on Facebook and yet another story in emails to the rescue--and even the emails weren't consistent. I base my judgment on having thought some of her experiences didn't add up and I started backtracking and checking out her posting on other sites and the stories/experiences didn't add up.

Anyone can say anything on a forum--and I mostly assume that people are well intentioned. But I don't ever offer to adopt a dog to someone on the basis of internet contact. And if a rescue I trust has had a bad experience with a person then they don't get a dog from us. Not all rescues are reputable, I realize, but the ones I deal with regularly are and do home checks, reference checks, want to know about the history of the potential adopters previous dogs, vet references. If that stuff doesn't add up, then you don't get the dog. And if you do get the dog and then behave badly around it, then you don't get another dog from that rescue. And many of us will alert other rescues to our experience so that other dogs don't get shuffled around as a result. It's called a DNA list.

There was a man on PugVillage who was well liked, involved in rescue and turned out to be an incestuous sexual predator and a pedophile. He's currently serving time for it. And his many pugs were left unattended after he was carted off to jail and several, in their starvation and panic, killed and ate each other. I always thought he was odd and had WAY too many dogs, but I never once suspected him of this level of insanity. But it goes to show that anyone can say anything and look good on the internet. And sometimes they can carry it off in a home visit and a reference check. I don't think you ever eally know anyone and that most people can look and act normal for a home check. But the truth does come out eventually. It always does. And if one has the truth behind them, then you don't have to post multiple varying stories on the internet. Tell the truth and shame the Devil.

Guest 7/8/2010, 11:05 pm

And you do realize that dogs, pugs included, are dying by the thousands across the country for lack of adoptive homes and adequate care?

We all want to see every dog get a perfect home with perfect people, but in reality, we all have our issues, we all have made mistakes and no one is perfect. It has been my experience that people tend to live up (or down) to your expectations of them.

Take care,
Lisa

Saira 7/8/2010, 11:10 pm

Actually considering our rescue has personal contact with her-and you have worked with us when we pulled dogs no on else could take from ca, I guess I would have hoped for a little more respect for us. I do, of course, have all our correspondence to and from her. If a rescue gives us a do not adopt name, we actually respect that. My first and foremore concern is the pugs we are responsible for-we will not place one in a home we feel is not a good one. And for the record, in the 5 years we have been around-there has only been one name on that list.

dieselsmom 7/8/2010, 11:23 pm

6 Pack of Pugs wrote:And you do realize that dogs, pugs included, are dying by the thousands across the country for lack of adoptive homes and adequate care?

We all want to see every dog get a perfect home with perfect people, but in reality, we all have our issues, we all have made mistakes and no one is perfect. It has been my experience that people tend to live up (or down) to your expectations of them.

Take care,
Lisa

Ok, I don't know all the drama that Jade brought or was involved in. What I do know is that although there are thousands of dogs dying for lack of homes and adequate care, if a rescue doesn't do its homework as thoroughly as possible and doesn't respect the DNA lists (which are in place for a reason), then that rescue is failing the dogs it is adopting out to inadequate homes. Just because a home is willing to adopt a dog doesn't make it a good home for a dog. And adopting a dog to anything less than a good home is reprehensible on the part of rescues, whose utmost concern should be placing dogs into FOREVER homes, not homes that may be suitable because the rescue is trying to adopt dogs, rather than find perfect homes for their dogs.

northernwitch 7/8/2010, 11:30 pm

6 Pack of Pugs wrote:I'm saying she loved her dog just as much as anyone else here loves their dogs.

And you do realize that dogs, pugs included, are dying by the thousands across the country for lack of adoptive homes and adequate care?

We all want to see every dog get a perfect home with perfect people, but in reality, we all have our issues, we all have made mistakes and no one is perfect. It has been my experience that people tend to live up (or down) to your expectations of them.

Take care,
Lisa

Where in the world do you think I live and work? Some never-never land? Of course I know that thousands of dogs get euthanized. Putting them in a home that can't afford them, or returns them the minute they pee on the floor or show some other issue the adopter decides they won't deal with doesn't change that fact one iota.

I spend time in our local pound EVERY DAY. I know how many animals are there unwanted and many are unadoptable. Sorry, I know that flies in the face of what people most often want to hear, but the reality is that there just ARE dogs that won't get adopted and placing them in whatever home will take them is a disservice to the dog and the adopter. Dogs are badly damaged by yo-yo adoptions. I see it every day. Dogs that someone took without giving any thought to the dogs real needs and then sling it back to the shelter or the rescue.

I am often one of the people who helps shelter staff determine which dogs can go to rescue, which can go into general adoption in the shelter and which ones should be euthanized. Not a fun part of my volunteer work, but I do it because it is part of my DUTY as an animal lover. There are worse things than euthanizing a dog humanely. There simply are not enough homes for all the dogs in need. That's obvious to anyone in rescue. And lowering standards on what makes an acceptable home doesn't change that fact.

These dogs deserve a home that best meets their needs--not just whoever will take them. And while you may be willing to foot the food or vet bills for other people, that is not the reality for 99% of the world. And I don't have any expectations of potential adopters--high or low--I let the visit, the references and their treatment of their previous dogs and the adopted one, if they pass, speak for them. If they goof it up, then sorry, they are out of the adoption game.

And here's another thing that I have to always consider. There are quite alot of very lovely, well intentioned, dog and cat lovers out there who WOULD adopt a medically challenged senior dog but cannot afford the care or the food. I had two people approach me to adopt the shih tzu I had in foster care who could not afford his adoption fee of $100 or 150 (I can't remember what it was). I turned them down. They likely would have loved Theo, but if you can't manage the adoption fee without creating financial hardship for yourself and your family, then I'm not giving you a dog that needs at least annual geriatric blood panels and a very specific diet to survive. Not only will I not do that to the dog, I won't do that to the family. That is unkind.

Rebecca and the Pugs 7/8/2010, 11:32 pm

Good point Rachel. Many of my forever dogs, have been throw-away dogs to others. I was Bubba's fourth home in the first 8 months of his life. By the time I got him, he had mange so badly he was just skin and pustules. He had to endure treatments for 18 months before he was clear. Eddie was dumped by the side of the freeway and it took him months before he could sleep without the light on. Peachy and Pugsley were kept in a small cage as a breeding pair with no medical attention. They were taken by an elderly lady that ended up having a stroke and was turned over to us by her nurse. They were in such bad shape we didn't think they would make it. I have also fostered over 75 pugs that have gone to loving forever families. I have the obligation to do right by each and every one of the pugs that come through my home, as well as each and every pug that comes through our rescue.

Guest 7/8/2010, 11:53 pm

I have the utmost respect for you. I also have respect for everyone else, including Jade. I have not been privy to any back and forth between Jade and you and it is not my business (nor is it the business of everyone on the forums) nor is it my position to choose who adopts and who does not. This isn't personal to you. No one is trashing you, I have a problem with the insinuation that this young couple didn't love their dog, care for her and just might be able to do the same again in the future for another dog. In this entire thread I've only seen one person trashed.

Saira, I don't have a problem with you. I respect your work and love everyone who loves these dogs and works to help them.

Take care,
Lisa

Mel 7/9/2010, 12:55 am

Hi Lisa -

My name is Mel and I don't know you, but I live in Vegas and work with the rescue. I am sorry you don't trust what Saira is telling you. After all, rescues have the same common goal, to help pugs. No one I know in rescue would ever deprive a pug a good home just because of personal conflicts. There's too many needy pugs to do that.

We're Here 7/9/2010, 12:55 pm

Let's assume that no one is going to put on their party manners and taking a box of Krispy Kremes under their arm, show up on the door step and ask themselves in. Although if she has read all this column, she is unlikely to give you the time of day. The dogs were offered for free or a small charge on Craigs List. Had they not been for free, but listed in the newspaper, the owner might well have been criticized for making a profit. Had they been offered to a rescue, there might or might not have been much room at the inn.

Possible solution step: campaign hard to have Craigs List drop pets in your part of the country or anywhere in the United States. Since most dogs are offered with a profit making rehoming fee, CL represents another market for byb or plain fools. Shut it down with letters and petitions and public display. I am not sure if rescues use CL anyway so its loss is no big deal. CL is sensistive to input.

Remember please, that our grandmothers probably told us, you can't be upset with the lack of flowers if you don't plant seeds.

Pugsaunt 7/9/2010, 1:11 pm

Ellen has a point. And so does everyone. It bothers me a lot that this topic could easily degenerate into ad hominem personal attacks. Nobody doubts that Jade, in her own way, loved Lulu. We can all agree that we are passionate about rescue, and many of us are actively involved in rescue. Which means that we are all in it for the pugs. Saving the world, one pug at a time, as it were. Some of us have had more contact with Jade than others. Some of us have had positive experiences. Some of us haven't. So can we please agree to disagree on Jade, and let it go?

dieselsmom 7/9/2010, 1:31 pm

Here's the thing I love most about this forum - we can all agree to disagree, but if we want to keep disagreeing, we can and Amanda won't simply lock a thread because she doesn't want to deal with drama surrounding it. She lets us voice our thoughts and opinions and, in the case, facts and we can all discuss things. If you don't agree with what's being said, say you don't agree or don't say anything at all. If you want to let it go, then don't bother reading this thread anymore. At least we have freedom on this forum (and no, I don't mean freedom to be ruthless and unnecessarily bash people), I mean freedom to share our thoughts without being banned from the forum for posting anything other than "Can we all get a group hug?"

BTW, for those of you who all want a group hug, here's my thoughts on a fricking group hug! Do you remember Lulu "Cooking Monster"? 19458

Do you remember Lulu "Cooking Monster"? 19458

Lindsey 7/9/2010, 1:34 pm

Pugsaunt wrote:Ellen has a point. And so does everyone. It bothers me a lot that this topic could easily degenerate into ad hominem personal attacks. Nobody doubts that Jade, in her own way, loved Lulu. We can all agree that we are passionate about rescue, and many of us are actively involved in rescue. Which means that we are all in it for the pugs. Saving the world, one pug at a time, as it were. Some of us have had more contact with Jade than others. Some of us have had positive experiences. Some of us haven't. So can we please agree to disagree on Jade, and let it go?

Agree....and light a candle for LuLu and pray she is at peace and frolicking at the Rainbow Bridge.

candle

For LuLu

I just like to add...I have the upmost respect for the wonderful people that open their hearts, homes and minds to support Rescue. You all are wonderful generous people.

Saira 7/9/2010, 1:34 pm

dieselsmom wrote:Here's the thing I love most about this forum - we can all agree to disagree, but if we want to keep disagreeing, we can and Amanda won't simply lock a thread because she doesn't want to deal with drama surrounding it. She lets us voice our thoughts and opinions and, in the case, facts and we can all discuss things. If you don't agree with what's being said, say you don't agree or don't say anything at all. If you want to let it go, then don't bother reading this thread anymore. At least we have freedom on this forum (and no, I don't mean freedom to be ruthless and unnecessarily bash people), I mean freedom to share our thoughts without being banned from the forum for posting anything other than "Can we all get a group hug?"

BTW, for those of you who all want a group hug, here's my thoughts on a fricking group hug!

Ugh Group Hugs. ashamed

Ellen, yes, that is a good idea on CL-if nothing else, we can agree that getting them to ban the sales of animals would be a start in the right direction. And in fact, a group of rescues here in Vegas have started discussing how to go about that. There is a spay/neuter law in effect here now, and that will hopefully make it easier to shut down the selling of puppies at least. And I'd rather be TOO passionate about the welfare of these creatures that come into our care than apathetic, so all in all, it's good.

**Amanda** 7/9/2010, 1:51 pm

I absolutely encourage everyone to voice their opinions and am perfectly fine with people disagreeing (whether they agree to disagree or not). We have a group of extremely strong folks here who have seen a lot and have done a ton of good for pugs. I don't want any pug put in a potentially harmful situation just because someone is afraid of sharing information or voicing an opinion that may not be popular.

With that said, I also don't want to give the impression that I support negative comments about a person's character, in a public forum. It's just not a habit I want to fall into, on this forum. There is a lot to this story and there are several very reputable rescue folks who have had personal experience with this situation and raise some very valid concerns. If other rescues have questions or concerns, please feel free to contact these folks via private message.

I'm not a fan of having threads just suddenly disappear without any explanation so I'm going to leave it here for now but will be moving it shortly.

**Amanda** 7/9/2010, 4:24 pm

I've decided to leave this thread here as I think it does contain some valuable information about the rescue process. You'll notice that I have edited/removed some of the individual posts but had to leave in some to maintain the integrity of the quoted text so that it could be followed. I'll leave the thread open for anyone who would like to continue a general discussion about the rescue process and the variables that come into play when deciding whether a potential home is a good one.

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