Possibilities in Dog Training

One of Susan Garrett's best blog posts i think.

http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2011/08/the-possibilities-in-dog-training/

There are definitely a lot of dog sports/events that are very much heavy handed and refusing to use more positive reinforcement methods simply because they've been doing it their way for a long time and either don't believe anything else will work in their sport/event, believe their dog is different and just will not learn by any other method period, or figure if yank and crank ain't broke why learn to train another way?

I enjoy that the comments on the post are kept civil as well from both sides.

Coincidentally, I have just been reading this article by Joan Weston:

http://www.dogsincanada.com/keeping-perspective-in-dog-sports

Wow what a great training video. I am truly impressed by the accomplishments of the dog and the joy with which it perfoms the tasks. I have been involved in dog obedience for many years and have seen the trends come and go. The work I have done with Stubby has been at his own speed. I have the luxury of training with a club that lets everybody progress at their own rate and never pressures anybody to trial or show. I have seen too many people whose only motivation for attending a trial or show is to win points or come first.

Luckily most particpants are there to enjoy the activity with their dogs and see how far the training has taken them. Seeing someone who has worked hard to get their dog to finish a level and finally gets there is thrilling. When Stubby passed his Rally Novice I think I was walking on air as I left the ring.....Stubby on the other hand was waiting to see what treat delight was waiting for him in the crate as it always does after competing. It makes no difference to him if we pass or fail 'cause he loves me regardless. I work hard to keep that trust.

This is what I love about training. You're working a brand new dog, clicker and treats in hand. The dog sits, you click and treat. The dog sits again, you click and treat. Dog sits, you click and treat. Dog looks at you with dawning wonder. He moves closer and sits and looks up at you with a sparkle in his eye. You click and treat. Dog starts offering sits, you c/t. Dog is happy, tail is wagging, learning is fun! I never get tired of seeing a dog "get it".

All my dogs love to train, not all my dogs love to perform. Beavis is the biggest ham in the world and will keep going til he keels over, but poor Todo, they wanted to use him in a computer advertisement and we had to go down to Austin and shoot the ad. He was in front of the camera for 6 hours and he hated it! He was so full of treats and by the time we quit, he was starting to shut down. And he would hardly even do a sit for about a month afterward. Attention whore he was not and that was ok!

If you have a dog that loves the attention, then do dog sports with him or her, but I want to see that sparkle in their eye while they are in the ring and when it's good it is magic! But it's just as obvious when a dog doesn't want to be there and it must be double hell for a dog that doesn't want to be there to get corrected for not wanting to be there. Those poor dogs just make me sad.

I think that using positive methods solidifies the dog/handler relationship into an equal partnership where more traditional methods seem like a boss/employee relationship, when things are going good, the handler takes the credit and when things are going bad, blame the dog!

I'm not a huge susan garrett follower, but I do use a lot of the methods she uses with my puppies and they do really work. In my experience, people have this weird combination of unrealistic, but at the same time very low expectations of their puppies. They really are a reflection of how much is put into them.

I've never trained using corrections, the whole concept baffles me.

Blanche, I really enjoyed that article. I see a lot of dogs competing regularly that obviously do not enjoy it. Very often (not always) their owners are just very negative in general and usually obviously nervous.....in other words, no one looks to be having much fun. I've always wondered if it's different in training or at home for these people & their dogs. I also see a lot of dogs who seem content, not happy, not stressed, but okay.....they're being obedient and doing their "job".

It's always been my goal for my dogs to *love* agility, to see it as a big party, and feel lucky and excited to get to do this, and for the most part they all have. The best compliment I've received has been that me and my dog are exciting to watch! I retired Abby because while she loves agility (and got to run a bit yesterday) she really can't handle competing. The stress of being around that many other dogs, the noise etc was too much for her, so I retired her 5 yrs old from competition. I could have pressed on, and likely earned a few more titles, but why. It wasn't in her best interest.

Bingo, Jesse. Therein lies the issue for me. Why do it if the dog doesn't enjoy it or if the whole thing ends up stressing the dog out?

And I love Joan Weston. She does a lot of our foster parent training and assesses a number of our dogs who are "off plumb".

Interesting to read all the points of view. I can only speak for obedience and rally training but I swear my dogs have always had a calendar/clock in their heads. On "dog school" nights Stubby follows me around waiting to get in the car and go. We get in the car and he can hardly wait to get there. On dog trial days he hops out of the car, enters the building and immediately starts to work the crowd for familiar faces. So many potential new friends/so little time. He loves the one on one time and has never been harshly punished or physically corrected. I know if I did he would shut down and he does have the potential to hold a grudge.

You do see burnt out dogs and handlers. Just look at the stats for the top obedience dogs....being trialed on an almost weekly basis is the only way to earn the extraordinary number of points racked up next to their names. Some handlers will enter 4 trials in one day ( 2 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon) in the hunt for the high in trial ribbon. Stubby is pretty well finished after one....he is not a machine and replacement parts are hard to get.

Rallypug wrote:Interesting to read all the points of view. I can only speak for obedience and rally training but I swear my dogs have always had a calendar/clock in their heads. On "dog school" nights Stubby follows me around waiting to get in the car and go. We get in the car and he can hardly wait to get there. On dog trial days he hops out of the car, enters the building and immediately starts to work the crowd for familiar faces. So many potential new friends/so little time. He loves the one on one time and has never been harshly punished or physically corrected. I know if I did he would shut down and he does have the potential to hold a grudge.

You do see burnt out dogs and handlers. Just look at the stats for the top obedience dogs....being trialed on an almost weekly basis is the only way to earn the extraordinary number of points racked up next to their names. Some handlers will enter 4 trials in one day ( 2 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon) in the hunt for the high in trial ribbon. Stubby is pretty well finished after one....he is not a machine and replacement parts are hard to get.

I think it's a lot like "hockey parents" at times. Folks get too much of their own stuff invested in the dog trialing or the kid playing. I think agility, rally and other sports are great and can be terrific for the dog/human bond, but some folks just go over the top.

Agility was a turning point in my relationship with the Death Pom and I'm glad I did it and she loved it. But not every dog does.