New behavior issue

Hard to believe anything naughty about little miss perfect, but we have a new budding issue with Co-Pilot.

Yesterday we took the kids over to the coast and hung out in the downtown area which was very busy yesterday, and there were a lot of dogs there. Co-Pilot alternated between walking and riding in the double stroller. When we first got there we went to eat at an outside patio and there was a dauchound that had a complete hissy and Co-Pilot was pretty well reserved, she wanted to get closer to the dog, but I was actually proud of her behavior. They co-existed on the patio for quite some time while we ate, no issues there. After that we walked several blocks and she saw some other dogs, but also did okay, then we went into a doggy boutique and there was yet another dauchound and she was sitting in the stroller and apparently lunged at the dog, snarling and crazy. I missed her outburst, but when I wandered back I see Scott holding her and he told me about it. As he is telling me about it, a lady that worked in the store, say "oh is she better now" and then she says "Yeah I've never seen a PUG like that" Scott confirmed her behavior was completely out of control.

As the day went on she did this several more times with other dogs, some that we saw in passing we would cautiously let them sniff each other and she would act nice and then turn psycho in a flat second. Picture snarling and all four feet going without traction on the cement. Ugh!

I admit she rarely plays with more than one other dog at a time anymore, the dog park here is too dangerous and when we go to the small dog park it's usually for a pug meetup where it's ALL pugs and she is nice with them.

So I want to know what to do? I don't want this to get worse, right now it's just with other dogs, but I'm of the opinion if I don't nip this now it could get worse.

Also Jeannette (if you are reading this) you saw her "controlling" behavior at our house, I meant to ask you if you had any suggestions for working with her on that since you have so much experience with Ruby, I certainly don't want to feed into her behavior and make things escalate.

Thanks everyone, I know this is long, I hope someone has suggestions.

Sara, I hope you didn't think I was being rude saying controlling - I didn't mean to! Sorry! I am just way more aware of it because of Ruby.

Advise? Uh, if things worked for us I'd be happy to give advise. Nothing has worked with Ruby. However,one thing the trainers told us is that Ruby should never be allowed to greet people at the front door or walk them out. That just gives her more control. The problem is that we have a baby gate, which in a way acts as an entrance. You have that also. The trainer also told us not to really acknowledge Ruby when we come in - ignore her for awhile until she calms down and then greet her. Guests should do the same. That is hard! Especially when they are cute little furry Co-Pilots!

I don't have any advise onthe dog aggression. Ruby is like that and we can't break though her rage. Java also did occasional lunges/tasmanian devil type behaviour. She did this mostly with dog types that she didn't like for whatever reason. White fluffy dogs were the arch enemy. She wasn't a fan of standard poodles either. Maybe the dauchound set her off?

When Emma was a baby so used to do this all the time. That is when I started her in obedience classes and where I learned to teach the "leave it" and "ignore" commands. It was VERY important that Emma behaved since she was about to hit the show ring and there was no tolerence for this behavior. In class every time was passed a dog it was "ignore"..over and over. After the dog passed she would be rewarded. Sometimes with a treat and other times with a praise. We are not always in situations where we have treats so it is good at times to just verbally reward as well. To this day I still tell her and the others following her to ignore. I am wondering if CP felt threatened in the situation or perhaps even protective? You may want to give your trainer a call and see if they can provide some advise too since they have worked one on one with her at times.

I don't have any advice, I'm just wondering if Co-Pilot is protecting her little brother. She may feel like she has to protect him from other dogs that get near.

MommaJones wrote:I don't have any advice, I'm just wondering if Co-Pilot is protecting her little brother. She may feel like she has to protect him from other dogs that get near.

I was wondering the same thing - especially since you got the double stroller.

Not Afraid wrote:

MommaJones wrote:I don't have any advice, I'm just wondering if Co-Pilot is protecting her little brother. She may feel like she has to protect him from other dogs that get near.

I was wondering the same thing - especially since you got the double stroller.

I like this theory! However, when the first "lash out" occurred I was carrying Carter in the store far away from them and she was in the stroller with Scott. Maybe she was however guarding her territory?

And I get what you are saying Sarina, it's just one thing to get her to listen to "leave it" or "ignore" and home and another to get her to do it in public and when she is so tempted.

The only hope I have is to create these situations and practice that way, which is not exactly easy, but I'll see what I can do.

Has she acted like this away from the stroller? The only reason I ask is because I wonder if she is guarding the stroller. Also, dogs can get more aggressive when confined/restrained, but once they are allowed to sniff and meet the other dog they are fine.

Sophie isn't aggressive with the snarling part, but she does try to bark and "lunge" at big dogs-when she actually gets up to them she is fine, but we don't want to have to hold her back when we are at events, etc. So we have been working on "leave it" like Sarina mentioned above. It's a lot of work-we got to the District, where there are big dogs ALL around, and it's REALLY annoying-so we have been trying to take her there just to work on the ignore command.

Moose isn't aggressive when I take him somewhere by himself, but he gets defensive if Linda's Odie Mo is along. I think he is either protecting him, or showing off for him. *LOL*

Could Co-Pilot have been tired or too hot?

Maryjo wrote:Moose isn't aggressive when I take him somewhere by himself, but he gets defensive if Linda's Odie Mo is along. I think he is either protecting him, or showing off for him. *LOL*

Could Co-Pilot have been tired or too hot?

Let's see, answering questions, yes the first incident occurred in the stroller, but it also occurred out of the stroller which was sometimes ahead of her and sometimes behind her.

She does not act like that around other dogs loose, or she hasn't in the past, so I wondered if the leashes had something to do with it.

Tired? Hard to tell, but she could not have been physically tired as she had maybe walked 5 blocks when the first incident occurred.

Hot, nope it was a breezy cool 70 degrees.

Jeannette, I was not offended in any was using the word controlling, I think it was a good word for her behavior, little diva.

I just am bringing this up so that I can handle her appropriately and it does not escalate.

Today we went downstairs and I was moving things around getting ready for our housekeeper, she knew something was up and was on edge and barking all morning at any little thing. I told our housekeeper who LOVES her to please pay NO attention to her until she calms down, that seemed to be a good idea, so I will have to do that for all our guests and I am sure will be more patient with me than others.

Hmm, she is clearly discovering her inner fawness.

Could it be she was getting worn out? Tired? On her last "nerve" and "lost it"?

I wonder if C-P has regular down time just to be a dog. Rest alone in a gaited room or crate just to have a break from going places and doing things.

God knows I'm no expert and given Jem's seeming progression into more and more reactivity, I'm not much of a dog trainer either.

BUT, I would start getting into some classes where you can work on her focus so that you can start with the ignore or leave it command. Jem is the opposite--FABULOUS on leash, but inclined to be reactive off leash. The approach is the same, however, I work on his recall and having him come to me and sit and focus on me and not on whatever has set him off.

And I'd be careful about having her in the stroller. Some dogs (Lola for one) can become resource guarders about things like furniture/strollers, etc. I know that you said she's reacted when not in the stroller, but if she sees the stroller as hers, she could be defending it even when not in it.

And this is TOTALLY my own opinion--but I've noticed that only dogs can be more likely to react to other dogs, can get a bit above themselves in terms of their relative importance in the broad scheme of things. I see it alot in the rescue--only dogs that can't share, are possessive of laps and attention and don't always seem to read "dog language" all that well. I don't know if this is the case with CP, but an obedience class might be a great way to do some low impact socialization with her as well as hone her "focus" skills.

We're Here wrote:I wonder if C-P has regular down time just to be a dog. Rest alone in a gaited room or crate just to have a break from going places and doing things.

You are so funny! I let the poor girl rest on Wednesdays! In all seriousness, I will be more aware of this and giving her "down time".

And actually Blanche, I think you've hit the nail on the head, I am not sure she sees herself equal with other dogs.

We let her have stroller rides because I can't just expect her to walk for hours/miles one day that we go to the coast, when it's so hot here she hasn't been on a walk in months, but actually Lisa can tell you when we met up in Santa Monica earlier this year she was tired and riding in Thurstons stroller and was being snarky with the dogs below her, but it just wasn't as aggressive.

It's been awhile since I posted this and I have been working with her, she is MUCH better. I have been practicing making her get in her bed and stay before I go to answer the door and actually I am IMPRESSED how well she is doing. Her other issue was being behind the baby gate (which is for her safety, not even for Carter) in the family room and every time I walked out of the room she would go nuts barking, and not just barking, but the out of control aggressive barking, now I tell her "wait" before I leave and she is usually calm until I return. Sometimes she will let out a few barks, but not NEARLY as bad. I am amazed how she almost NEEDS me to be in control and when I do my job she is much better. Of course it's an ongoing thing....

The reality is that dogs DO need someone to be in control and let them know what the rules are. Without that you can have anxiety, aggression, general "what's going to happen" behaviour. They are permanent toddlers.

I just fired a dog client because she has adopted a GSD mix and "just wants him to be happy and be a dog". When I asked her what that meant, she said she's not going to do any training to "make him behave". The dog is completely out of control. She continues to refuse to train him and doesn't want me to make him behave (this includes learning to sit!!)--so I fired them. I can't work with a dog that isn't allowed to learn anything. And sadly, this dog is doomed--at some point he'll hurt someone--whether he means to or not and that will be that.

Thanks again for your input Blanche. I have always thought training was important, I think just adding Carter to the family, my guilt that that she is not the only baby, I think I thought I was being "nice" by letting her get away with more and in reality, she needs me to continue to be her leader.

One day at a time, she is still and will always be our baby and we just need to be consistent with her and let her know we are in charge.

Sara wrote:Thanks again for your input Blanche. I have always thought training was important, I think just adding Carter to the family, my guilt that that she is not the only baby, I think I thought I was being "nice" by letting her get away with more and in reality, she needs me to continue to be her leader.

One day at a time, she is still and will always be our baby and we just need to be consistent with her and let her know we are in charge.

Hey, honey, it's not like you haven't had other things to think about or deal with. We all get slack--I know I do and I usually pay for it in some way! i.e. Tank deciding that he only needs to listen to the guy in the park with the cheese treats........

Training our "babies" isn't always easy. We love to spoil them, pamper them and kiss them to death. We have to always do a little training with Tilly or she takes over. She has to "down and wait" for every meal. I teach the grandkids to make her do a trick for the treat they love to give her. "Nothing in life is free" makes for a better dog.

sallyandtilly wrote:Training our "babies" isn't always easy. We love to spoil them, pamper them and kiss them to death. We have to always do a little training with Tilly or she takes over. She has to "down and wait" for every meal. I teach the grandkids to make her do a trick for the treat they love to give her. "Nothing in life is free" makes for a better dog.

I LOVE Nothing In Life is Free, I'll have to revisit that book, good reminder!

Of all things, Scott (who she never normally listens to) taught her to go sit in her "spot" and wait for her food bowl to be set down. She is not allowed to get off her spot and get her food until he releases her. I have NO CLUE how he trained her to do that because I usually do all the training, but it works really well and just goes to show you they are smart and totally use their cute looks and sad faces against us!

And Blanche, if the guy has cheese, I bet any pug would listen to him!

it's funny, when I think of what a good doggie Zoe is, I realize it's because I don't give her the opportunity to be bad. I'm just thinking in general here, not specific to your situation, Sara. I think training and watching your dog like it is a toddler is important. So many people expect them to behave on their own. They don't get it and then they complain that their dog was bad and ate their shoe. I say, why'd you leave your shoe in a place where they could find it? It's really your fault. lol

I know lil miss CPis a good little girl. Times like this just remind us how much guidance they really need.

Mel wrote:it's funny, when I think of what a good doggie Zoe is, I realize it's because I don't give her the opportunity to be bad. I'm just thinking in general here, not specific to your situation, Sara. I think training and watching your dog like it is a toddler is important. So many people expect them to behave on their own. They don't get it and then they complain that their dog was bad and ate their shoe. I say, why'd you leave your shoe in a place where they could find it? It's really your fault. lol

I know lil miss CPis a good little girl. Times like this just remind us how much guidance they really need.

Really good point, Mel. Set them up for success and constantly praise. Then if they do something undesirable, I'm big on distraction and redirection firmly and consistently. My dogs hardly get any food treats, but I use them initially for training/behaviour issues. I'm big on routine so they know what to expect and what is expected of them. The only undesirable things I can't seem to stop are the howling and barking before meals, and the constant fighting between Gooey and Farnsworth. And I think part of both these behaviours is due to deafness and blindness. It's hard to orally stop a deaf dog from barking and hard to stop preparing the meal so you can tactilely (?) train. And of course when one dog barks/howls, many of the others join in.

I like the suggestion of the obedience school and would do that with younger problematic dogs, particularly if they are aggressive in any way.