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Help! Struvites PLUS kidney problems! Diet?

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Help! Struvites PLUS kidney problems! Diet?

Post  Puggered on 9/18/2010, 12:48 am

Help!! Thinking caps on for special senior diet, please.

Crystal is just back from the vet. She didn't seem ill, but had been doing a hatrack imitation in spite of appetite, energy (well, she sleeps 23/24) and elimination all being normal, so I bumped up the routine senior health check visit.

Horror! her urea coumt is in the high 20s!!! Urinanalysis revealed raging UTI and heavy struvites. PLUS the whatsit count (creatine??? mind blank) was 145 so we have early kidney problems. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

OK so obviously we need to clear up the UTI and struvites first, so she is on ab's and on RC Urinary kibble (if she doesn't starve to death before deciding to eat it... sigh ) for 6 - 8 weeks. I have also started her on 1000mg fish oil daily (except for days she has a mackerel or sardine meal) to help the renal problem.

Hopefully by then her bladder will be clear and I can put her back on raw. My biggest worry is that tweaking the diet to avoid struvite problems and tweaking the diet to avoid renal problems are pretty contradictory, so I am in a bit of a panic. (Stupid, there's at least 6 weeks to think this through I suppose. Calm down girl).

So my first thoughts are to go with a renal diet (add zapped eggshell to bind phosphorous and replace at least half the green veges with fermentable fibre like porridge, carrots, pumpkin) and not acidify the diet like you normally would with struvites, but to use cranberry extract as a supplement to discourage bacteria in the bladder. For the kidneys, continue with the fish oil supplement and look for a good Vitamin B supplement (brewer's yeast? I've never used it in a dog's diet maybe just buy vitamin supplement?) ACV, kelp powder and yoghurt they all get regularly anyway, I think they should be okay to continue those.
I would love to start her on cranberry right away, but I seem to remember it interferes with some ab's, I must check that with the vet, but for the time being I will assume I can't start it until she's completed the ab course.

So thoughts and suggestions people? Please?
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Re: Help! Struvites PLUS kidney problems! Diet?

Post  Aussie Witch on 9/18/2010, 1:46 am

Calling BLANCHE!!
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Re: Help! Struvites PLUS kidney problems! Diet?

Post  Renee on 9/18/2010, 1:51 am

Yes, I'm thinking Blanche or Hilary may be helpful here.

I often wonder about those prescription urinary kibbles. Do they really work? What in them makes them work?

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Re: Help! Struvites PLUS kidney problems! Diet?

Post  smoochieface on 9/18/2010, 2:12 am

I am not familiar with renal issues, but did do quite a bit of research with struvites when Bruno went through them. In addition to lessening alkaline foods and increasing acidity, a lot of people forget that you also need to cut calcium and mineral supplements because they will further exacerbate struvites. To help Bruno, we focused as much on what to eliminate as what to add. We eliminated sea kelp and all mineral supplements. We also eliminated all yogurt and anything with calcium in it. We further simplified his food to the simplest ingredients we could find - single grain single protein, few added supplements in a kibble, and now he gets a raw patty at night.

And the biggest thing was water, water, water.

Again, I'm not sure how this works when you are dealing with renal issues on top of the struvites. Good luck!
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Re: Help! Struvites PLUS kidney problems! Diet?

Post  northernwitch on 9/18/2010, 8:09 pm

Sorry--just saw this--I've been diverted by human craziness.

Yes on the WATER, WATER, WATER. You really want the system flushing out as much as possible. As to the kidney stuff--I'm not as up on the kidney issues as I could be. I know that it used to be that you wanted low protein for kidney issues, but I don't know if that's still true.

If there are kidney issues, I'd be careful with some of the naturopathic remedies for struvites as you might end up swinging the balance the other way and creating an environment for Calcium oxalate. It's really common to have a UTI with crystals as the crystals are an irritant and a locus for infection (I think that's how Alice described it)

The absolute best source for info on this is Hilary--pugpillow on here, I think.
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Re: Help! Struvites PLUS kidney problems! Diet?

Post  Puggered on 9/19/2010, 2:06 am

Thanks, all.

Yes 100% agreement on the water water water. And I can't really go with the traditional acidify diet because that's not great for weak kidneys, so I avoid the danger you mention re the oxalates.

I am actually grateful for the prescription diet as an interim measure because it avoids the over-acidifying issue and supports the ab's without enabling more crystal formation. I am more a believer in keeping the bladder in a bacteria unfriendly state after the original infection is cleared. (Mind you, if it had been the Science Diet one offered to me I would have run a mile, fast!)

Really good point about the minerals, I can't see calcium per se being a problem (in fact a raw diet is quite high in calcium) but I see your point with dairy-source calcium as the silica balance is not quite right if I understand that correctly. But as a percentage calcium source in their current diet, the yoghurt is quite low really. Hmmm the kelp does contain magnesium it's true, I will certainly think on that, but it's soooo great for pigmentation and Crystal is quite silver enough LOL!

Blanche the old low protein diet for kidneys is now generally considered fairly wrong (the dog, after all is a carnivore) they say these days to reduce phosphorous and magnesium (all of which are high in a raw diet) hence my choosing to use the dried ground eggshell which is a phosphorous binder. They also say to take some of the load off the kidneys by increasing fermentable fibre as that will then bind and eliminate some toxins via the colon. But there is so much I don't know it is scary. Right now cooked fish account for a good third of her protein intake, raw chicken on the bone another third and raw lean minced red meat (mostly roo) the last third. I am struggling with the mineral composition and wondering if I need to change those proportions? They hardly ever get eggs, maybe they should be getting more? I will have to find something to do with the egg that comes out of the shells I will be using LOL!

The greyhound people here swear by a vitamin B supplement called 'savoury yeast flakes' normally used by vegetarians. Has anyone heard of that?

Please keep all the suggestions coming!
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Re: Help! Struvites PLUS kidney problems! Diet?

Post  PugLady3 on 9/19/2010, 9:44 am

There is some fantastic information on kidney disease and diet here:

http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

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Re: Help! Struvites PLUS kidney problems! Diet?

Post  MandyPug on 9/19/2010, 10:26 am

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Re: Help! Struvites PLUS kidney problems! Diet?

Post  pugpillow on 9/19/2010, 9:22 pm

Well, guru that I'm supposed to be (?), I can't really add much to the great stuff that's already been said. And you know a heck of a lot about this already. My two cents worth echo the "water, water, water" mantra and recommend discussing the matter with the nice folks on the K9KidneyDiet board at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KIDNEYDIET/?yguid=242050548

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Re: Help! Struvites PLUS kidney problems! Diet?

Post  northernwitch on 9/19/2010, 9:54 pm

pugpillow wrote:Well, guru that I'm supposed to be (?), I can't really add much to the great stuff that's already been said. And you know a heck of a lot about this already. My two cents worth echo the "water, water, water" mantra and recommend discussing the matter with the nice folks on the K9KidneyDiet board at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KIDNEYDIET/?yguid=242050548

I figured you had to be better able to remember the kidney stuff. I always get lost in the kidney and protein debate--I certainly know that the protein doesn't cause kidney issues--my guys are all raw fed and are all older--but I can never remember if once there ARE kidney issues if you have to lower the protein. So thanks for the links and I'll do some reading......
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Re: Help! Struvites PLUS kidney problems! Diet?

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