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Anesthesia?

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Anesthesia?

Post  TxAllieGrl on 1/6/2011, 10:53 am

Hi gang,

Does anyone have the anesthesia recommendations? I have a friend I'd like to share them with. She's nervous about spaying her puppy. Understandable - she lost a dog on the table (they later said there was an underlying heart condition that contributed to it).

Thanks!

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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  LisaIzzyAggy on 1/6/2011, 1:06 pm

Here's what I have in my notes (from viralmd I think).

Surgery
Induction with ketamine + valium
Maintenance anaesthesia with either isofluorane or sevofluorane
Continuous ECG should be used
Continuous pulse oximetry should be used
Someone needs to be in the room to look at the ECG and pulse oximeter readings
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  GracieNEmma on 1/6/2011, 1:33 pm

I'm no help with the anesthesia part but I highly recommend doing any and all pre-op blood work, tests, etc. You'd be surprised at how many vets don't do this or people that skip over that part to save some money.
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  pugasaurus on 1/6/2011, 2:35 pm

GracieNEmma wrote:I'm no help with the anesthesia part but I highly recommend doing any and all pre-op blood work, tests, etc. You'd be surprised at how many vets don't do this or people that skip over that part to save some money.

I second this, most of the dogs that die on the table have an underlying condition that could've been caught if they would have done the blood work.
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  smoochieface on 1/6/2011, 2:41 pm

LisaIzzyAggy wrote:Here's what I have in my notes (from viralmd I think).

Surgery
Induction with ketamine + valium
Maintenance anaesthesia with either isofluorane or sevofluorane
Continuous ECG should be used
Continuous pulse oximetry should be used
Someone needs to be in the room to look at the ECG and pulse oximeter readings

Yep, I have the same list from viralmd. Just went over that list with my vet a few months ago for Chester's surgery and he completely agreed with the protocol and said that's exactly how he does it.

I second the recommendation for pre-op bloodwork. It adds about $120 to the bill but it's really important. My vet won't do surgery without it. And pre-op bloodwork is good for a month in case you don't have surgery right away.

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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  northernwitch on 1/6/2011, 3:46 pm

Here's an anaesthesia protocol that many brachycephalic rescues use:

From Pugs.com:

"Here is where we differ with many people and their experiences. Again, this is only how we handle the situation with our veterinarian. Make sure the vet does not use any barbiturates to sedate your Pug beforehand. Many vets "premedicate" their surgeries with a barbituate sedative, to make the animal easier to handle for induction of the breathing tube and so that it will require less induction agent (that's the isofluorane). Many vets use acepromazine, which is fairly mild, but they tend to use it in too high of a dose for small dogs which can cause respiratory depression. Ace also can prolong recovery times, which is very dangerous in Pugs. They need to wake up quickly. A vet does have to insert the isofluorane breathing tube down and into your dog's throat, but to do this, in my opinion, it is not necessary to inject anything. No matter what, NEVER allow your vet to use a "standard" combination of xylazine and ketamine which can cause heart stoppage in Pugs. Instead, have the vet simply "mask" your dog. This means the vet holds the isofluorane gas mask over the dogs face for a few seconds. The Pug breathes in the gas and will drop off into a light, short nap, during which time the vet can insert the breathing tube. Using this method, your vet injects no chemicals at all, just the isofluorane gas. Sometimes, this method can result in an irritated throat, and slight cough after surgery.

Make sure the vet uses at least an EKG machine and blood pressure monitor during the surgery. These may cost extra, but they provide extra measures of safety, and a Pug needs every bit they can get. We do not ever consent to anesthesia/surgery without them. And we make sure a vet tech or assistant will be measuring heart and respiration rates every few minutes at a minimum. Even better is if there is one there just to monitor that your Pug continues to breath throughout the operation. Yes, all of this costs more money. Yes, our Pugs are worth it.

If the surgery will be a long one or if your Pug has any pre-existing health problem, make sure the vet will be giving IV fluids to prevent dehydration and keep up strength. More money, but again, well spent."
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  Lindsey on 1/7/2011, 2:05 am

Great topic, Allie.

I wish, I would have known about his before I took Lillie in last March, when she died on the table during her spay, but we were lucky and she came back to us.

Thank you for the info.
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  Tyson&LuLu'sMom on 2/15/2011, 12:52 pm

I've been trying to gather some information for when Tyson needs his dental in the next couple months, and I just read about a pug who died during a dental when a combination of ketamine and valium was used.
I came here to search and see this is what viralmd recommended, but contradictory to what Blanche posted from pugs.com.
I haven't spoken to my vet yet to see what protocol they use, I'm trying to educate myself ahead of time.
Any thoughts?

Any tips on having this discussion with my vet if I want them to do something different than their "normal procedures"? Obviously I don't want to insult anyone, but I'd never forgive myself if anything happened and I knew better and didn't stand up for something...
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  northernwitch on 2/15/2011, 7:05 pm

Becky:
Here's another link for you. It's the protocol for the French Bulldogs. They have an even harder time with anaesthesia than pugs do.

http://www.allstarfrenchbulldogs.com/FrenchBulldogAnesthesia.htm

The reality is that anaesthesia is never without some risk and some dogs, no matter what you do, will have adverse reactions, some fatal. All you can do is put in as many safeties as possible. I ALWAYS have pre-anaesthetic blood work done and I ALWAYS have IV fluids done.
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  puglover22 on 4/21/2011, 9:54 am

Blanche I would like to print that out and am unable to.....it just won't work, and I can't save it either. Would you know of a way I can do that without just writing it down word for word? Thanks!
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  Maryjo on 4/21/2011, 12:07 pm

puglover22 wrote:Blanche I would like to print that out and am unable to.....it just won't work, and I can't save it either. Would you know of a way I can do that without just writing it down word for word? Thanks!

Can you hi-light the whole thing and copy and paste it to a Word or text document? That's what I do.

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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  puglover22 on 4/21/2011, 12:27 pm

that's what I tried to do MJ, but it won't work!!! If you're able to do it, can you try, and email it to me if possible? I'd like to print it out and bring to the vet. Paddy is getting a dental on Tues and we're a little concerned!
Thanks!
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  Tyson&LuLu'sMom on 4/21/2011, 12:34 pm

puglover22 wrote:that's what I tried to do MJ, but it won't work!!! If you're able to do it, can you try, and email it to me if possible? I'd like to print it out and bring to the vet. Paddy is getting a dental on Tues and we're a little concerned!
Thanks!

I was able to "screen shot" it, PM me your email address if you want me to try and send it to you.
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  TNPUGMOMOF3 on 4/21/2011, 12:41 pm

I have it cut and pasted too if you want me to email it to you.
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  puglover22 on 4/21/2011, 12:45 pm

wow thanks you guys!
I don't understand why it wouldn't work for me. I've sent you both my email addy, in case it comes thru differently from a screen shot or a cut and paste.
Thank you so much!!!
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  TNPUGMOMOF3 on 4/21/2011, 12:49 pm

Let me know if you get it!
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  puglover22 on 4/21/2011, 1:53 pm

Thanks you guys, it's still not coming thru!
it's not the link that Blanche posted about the french bulldogs
then I tried to just go into the website allstarfrenchbulldogs.com
because that was the address above the anesthesia page, and that doesn't work either......I'm probably going to have to write it all down, and I was hoping not to have to do that! If anyone has any other ideas, I'm all ears!
I really appreciate your help!
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  Saira on 4/21/2011, 1:58 pm

puglover22 wrote:wow thanks you guys!
I don't understand why it wouldn't work for me. I've sent you both my email addy, in case it comes thru differently from a screen shot or a cut and paste.
Thank you so much!!!

Send me your email. Very Happy I saved it as a pdf, hopefully it works.
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Re: Anesthesia?

Post  puglover22 on 4/21/2011, 2:17 pm

Saira wrote:
puglover22 wrote:wow thanks you guys!
I don't understand why it wouldn't work for me. I've sent you both my email addy, in case it comes thru differently from a screen shot or a cut and paste.
Thank you so much!!!

Send me your email. Very Happy I saved it as a pdf, hopefully it works.

YAY!!! It worked!!!
thanks Saira and everyone else too!
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