Staph infections on skin of dogs

I'm here to pick your collective brains about Tank. I think he's got another staph infection on his skin--this is the second one in 6 months. We treated the last one with cephalexin for 30 days and weekly baths with an anti-fungal/anti-bacterial shampoo and a leave in conditioner. I'm not positive he has another one, but I suspect he does as all the symptoms are the same. We're seeing my vet at 2. So here's some history on Tank and my questions.

Tank has multiple allergies. Eggs, chicken, all grains including flax, wool, many plants (chamomile, calendula, burdock, alfalfa, chicory to name a few), seasonal allergies, allergies to some meds which I suspect has to do with the suspensions/preservatives rather than the actual meds. He came to me in horrible condition--black crusty skin, almost no hair. He'd been treated for YEARS with massive doses of prednisone--up to 20 mgs a day and had been on numerous vet recommended diets--all of which failed as he has so many allergies that a kibble diet just will not work for him. I've slowly weaned him down from 20 mgs of pred daily to 1.25 mgs every two or three days. He's raw fed.
He's also hypothyroid--although that has been well managed for the last two years. His skin has improved dramatically on our current regimen although he started with the staph infections about 6 months ago.
He is immune compromised from all the pred although there doesn't appear to be any liver damage. We've had off and on issues with anemia and he still has a somewhat high (and unexplained) platelet count. I've immune boosted him over the years with Moducare, but stopped that about 8 months ago as we were getting what we felt was a rebound effect. He's on large doses of Omegas and has been for several years.

He catches EVERYTHING. He's had viral papilloma twice in 18 months.

And now I think we've got another staph infection. I'm going to ask my vet if we have a resistant staph infection (assuming it's staph) and I'm also wondering if fostering is part of the problem. I'm pretty sure he got both cases of viral papilloma from fosters--but I had assumed after the first case, he would be safe, but apparently they can get it more than once and he did. This most recent bout of itching and crusty skin happened while Cooper was here. I don't think he caught it from Cooper, but I'm wondering if fostering creates a stress on Tank and makes him vulnerable to these issues. I'd hate to give up fostering, but I may have to.

I've heard good things about Manuka honey and may try it with Tank--although I don't know what form I would use and am not sure that he could tolerate it given that he has plant allergies. I have this vision of my self and Tank covered in honey.....

I don't use any commercial cleaning products and change my furnace filters regularly. My home isn't particularly moldy or dusty although it's an old house so has some of both, I imagine. He has done really well until the last 6 months when the staph infections started. We seem to get on top of one issue and another pops up. One of my theories is that as he heals up some and the pred reduces in his system, we are seeing underlying issues that were masked by the massive doses of pred. But I might be nuts on this.

So any thoughts or suggestions?

I too wonder about the pred suppressing all the other things. I know very little about staph except that it can hang around forever. And some people I know are more prone to it then the rest of us. Good luck to you and Tank, I want to see pictures of you both covered in honey

I do think stress can have an impact-at least I know it with Sophie. The little bugger stresses out with her nails, and she flares up. We were also told by her vet to be careful with her stress levels since Atopica suppresses her immune system, and leaves her open for more infections, etc-and all of it can be accelerated by stress.

Saira wrote:I do think stress can have an impact-at least I know it with Sophie. The little bugger stresses out with her nails, and she flares up. We were also told by her vet to be careful with her stress levels since Atopica suppresses her immune system, and leaves her open for more infections, etc-and all of it can be accelerated by stress.

I don't have any doubt that stress impacts on health at all--especially with an immune suppressed dog. I'm not sure how stressful Tank finds fosters--I know he found Jem stressful cause Jemmie was a jerk with Tank. I would have said that Coop wasn't stressful, but another dog in the house changes the dynamics and just because I don't see obvious signs of stress doesn't mean Tank isn't stressed.

There is no doubt at all that stress will lower the already compromised immune system. The real question is - are the fosters really stressing him that much? Maybe you could take a short break from active fostering - say six to eight weeks or something? You could still work in rescue, coordinating & stuff.
If Tank has zilch, zero, nil new reactions/infections/ailments during the break from fostering (which personally I doubt) then you will have a decision to make I guess.
His history makes me suspect that he will always have issues because the long term pred has just about totally destroyed his whole IS. (In a way he is lucky - my Crystal very nearly died outright in a pred reaction and is left with neurological issues similar to a stroke victim.)So unless you want him to live life totally encapsulated in a plastic bubble, I would be just accepting that he is going to always have issues.
Also I believe that stimulation of the IS by constant tiny exposure to known allergens helps to strengthen it, like letting kids play in mud from time to time...but that is a whole 'nother issue.

This is going to sound a little odd, especially coming from me, but why don't you just ask him? And by that I mean employ the services of a animal communicator. Heck, you've tried everything else and even if it's a total load of crap, it couldn't make the situation any worse? I do believe that some people have a higer level of perception and can assit people like me who don't. If you can't figure it out, there is only feew few on here who know more about that kind of stuff than you!

I have used Shannon Gross and liked her. She's not real hokey and knew things about the personality of each dog that we discussed, that she could not have known and I didn't tell her. Mostly I think it's fun, but maybe could be more useful for Tank. He may need to tell you that he isn't comfortable with the fosters and that is the problem or maybe what he gets that makes him feel bad. Just an idea.

Back from the vet. she doesn't think it's resistent staph as she feels we wouldn't be seeing such good results with the cephalexin. So he's on another month long course of it with the weekly baths. We talked about stress, etc and she felt that if the stress was an issue, I'd have been seeing flare ups before now--maybe--I'm not sure. And she feels that the flare ups would occur earlier than I see them.

I have taken several breaks in fostering due to my uncertainty about Tank's system coping with it. And while I don't see big changes between when I do and when I don't foster, there does seem to be some correlation between his skin issues and fostering, but it could be just coincidence. He does other stuff that is stressful (Potentially) like trade shows, etc and that doesn't throw him into any kind of crisis.

Bottom line, my vet said that it took 8.5 years for him to get in rough shape and it will likely take some time to completely improve and that might not even be possible. She feels that he has been so compromised (from a skin perspective) for so long that he just IS going to be prone to these skin issues.

We want to watch this as his last staph issue was October so this wasn't a very long gap between the infections.

And Marci--I don't think your suggestion is loonie at all. There is woman here in Toronto who is well thought of in the animal communication area. I've never used her, but lots of other folks have and swear by her.

Our current furnace is dying a slow death and when we get it replaced (please pray that it hangs on until the spring) I will get an air filtration system added to it--for all of our benefits--not just the dogs.

And I also believe, Angela, that a sterile environment is not a healthy one for dogs or people. Tank doesn't live in a bubble. What's interesting is that although he has gotten viral papilloma twice from dogs in foster care, he's never gotten bordetella and I've had lots of kennel cough dogs in. So his immune system isn't completely shot. I do take them all to the dog park regularly as I think the exposure is good for them, not to mention the exercise. Although Tank's weight has crept up to 12.6 kgs.

So he's on cephalexin again for 30 days and we'll see how it goes.

thanks for the advice and the listening ear.

I can't claim to know much about staph infections in dogs. I do know that staph lives in the noses of us humans, and we can carry it (and share it) from person to person. The carrier may not even know they are a carrier - they may not have an infection or boil, etc at the time when they pass it along. I wonder if it's the same in dogs?

TxAllieGrl wrote:I can't claim to know much about staph infections in dogs. I do know that staph lives in the noses of us humans, and we can carry it (and share it) from person to person. The carrier may not even know they are a carrier - they may not have an infection or boil, etc at the time when they pass it along. I wonder if it's the same in dogs?

My vet said that staph and yeast are pretty common bacteria on all of us (there are others that we all carry around). For whatever reason, Tank flares up for no obvious reason--although stress could be a part of it--but as to what is the stressor--who knows--Tucker moving out and then back in, foster dogs (maybe), the sudden weather changes, heat and humidity issues. Could be almost anything.....

Damn dogs.

aw, poor Tank. I'm sorry to hear he gets sick so easily. Sending positive vibes your way that he'll get better and not have any more staph infections! poor guy!

I have not dealt with staph skin infections. Pugsly was on pred for over 4 years non stop, and at one time, his body was halfway covered in calcinocis cutis. He was losing weight at an alarming speed, and we never did find out why so between the weight loss and the pred, his body was almost covered in oozing scabs. I began adding some immune booster things to his food and increased his food and eventually his skin began to clear. He also had a low thryoid and took meds.

I have always been 200% happy with my vet that I had in Illinois. She was great and always recommended that I see a specialist if she wasn't able to figure out what was wrong. However, a different set of eyes really helped Pugsly after we moved to TN. While the doctor looked over his file (about 4 inches thick), he told me that he honestly could not think of anything different to do with Pugsly except that since he was on thyroid meds, he would like to see his levels a bit higher since they were still kind of showing normal but on the low end. So, we increased his meds to 2mg twice a day, and within a few weeks, you should have seen him. All the sudden, hair that had been missing for a couple of years started to grow back, and overall, his eyes looked more bright and alert. He did not have any food or inhalent allergies, but he did have the chronic bronchitis and copd which was the reason he took steroids. He was also on Clavamox almost nonstop for 2 yrs since that seemed to be the only combo to keep him breathing and not getting pneumonia.

So, I guess the only thing I could recommend is seeing if a slightly higher dose of thyroid meds would help. I did meet a woman through the rescue on one of my home visits who had a pug that she had saved from a shelter that had horrible skin issues. I had never seen a pug who looked so bad. This little girl went to the University of Madison in Wisconsin on a weekly basis. She was never healed but would get better then take a turn for the worse every so often even though her routine never really changed.

Sorry, I know I'm being one of those "yeah, but" people. Leslye, we actually were able to reduce his thyroid meds after we reduced his pred dose. He was on a high level of thyroid meds and once we got his pred down, his thyroid started to stabilize. He's still on thyroid meds, but his levels are smack in the middle where they should be. It was one of the first things I wondered about, but his T4s are good. I get them checked every 6 months.

He's not losing weight--he's a bit heavier than I'd like him to be, but not by much. My biggest issue with him generally is that he reacts to so many things that almost all the naturopathic remedies are eliminated due to his allergies to botanicals. Right now what we are seeing isn't an allergic reaction really--no itchy ears, inflamed feet or other classic allergy signs. What my vet thinks we're seeing is a dog that has had horrible allergies for years that were either untreated or treated ineffectively creating a skin that is so sensitive, it is wide open to any wandering bacterium. Yes, he still has some allergy issues, but between his diet, the minimal pred--which he stays on because his adrenals are probably destroyed and don't function adequately--avoiding known allergens and general health maintenance, his allergies are pretty well controlled. We just can't seem to get his skin sufficiently de-sensitized (or whatever the word is I'm looking for) to avoid the influx of the staph issues.

His immune system is complicated and I'm not really able to explain it very well, but we have to be very careful with immune boosting as a dog with a wrecked adrenal who is immune boosted can end up having more problems due to the immune boosting. It can kick the body into an inappropriate over drive. I'm not entirely sure I understand it all, but the naturopathic vet I've consulted said that I shouldn't immune boost him other than with Omegas as I could be setting up his system for problems. I had been immune boosting him quite a bit, but once we got his pred dosage down, she suggested that I stop with the Moducare so that his adrenals could have a chance to function to whatever level they could.

I may have this all wrong as it was alot of information given to me over a year ago--but the bottom line was for me to be careful with immune boosting him too much.....

It's very frustrating.

I don't have any advice except sometimes it does help to talk it out and get feedback. Some many people have offered some great suggestions and different angles of thought. Sometimes I have to talk things out to figure out if I am on the right course or if I need to adjust and steer in a different direction. I think that it's okay to say "yeah, but" you have so much more historical information on him that you could even put into words. Hopefully talking through it will either make you feel better about what you are doing or not doing or it will help you see another perspective. Also, as people age their immune systems get weaker. There might not be anything in the bloodwork that shows this, but it could be a contributing factor even though you can't put your finger on it in a tangible way. I think that Tank is so lucky to have you.

Did they culture it? That's the only way they'll know the bacteria that is there and therefore what medication it could be sensitive to.

Staph infections scare the hell out of me. Not in a overly dramatic way, but in a very realistic way. My mom had MRSA a few years ago. MRSA is a very, very resistant form of staph that she picked up from a hospital (it lives in the super clean areas). Working at a vet's, we've seen staph infections, oddly enough, mostly in dogs' ears.

I know you said Tank is responding well to the meds, but I'd be inclinded to think if it is staph again, it's still the same infection as before. I know staph infections can be very much less severe than MRSA like my mom had, but with hers, it was so resistant that she was on IV meds for weeks, and needed bone scans after to make sure it hadn't gotten into her bloodstream. Like I said, I don't think Tank's infection is at that level, this is just my experience with the bacteria. Oh, and I would be very careful incase his staph infection can be transmitted to people (maybe your vet already told you if it is or not). If it is, I'm sure he/she told you to make sure you don't let his infection touch any open sores or lacerations.

So I don't know if my post helps at all...I guess just make sure there isn't a new bacteria that has popped up.

As for the immunosupression he deals with, that one's tough. Of course lessening stress along with good sleep and a good diet will help keep healthy. It's difficult because other dogs could be bringing in germs even if they aren't showing signs of being sick or germy. I think it makes sense to try holding off from fostering for a bit. It's worth a shot.

papaspugs wrote:I don't have any advice except sometimes it does help to talk it out and get feedback. Some many people have offered some great suggestions and different angles of thought. Sometimes I have to talk things out to figure out if I am on the right course or if I need to adjust and steer in a different direction. I think that it's okay to say "yeah, but" you have so much more historical information on him that you could even put into words. Hopefully talking through it will either make you feel better about what you are doing or not doing or it will help you see another perspective. Also, as people age their immune systems get weaker. There might not be anything in the bloodwork that shows this, but it could be a contributing factor even though you can't put your finger on it in a tangible way. I think that Tank is so lucky to have you.

Thanks Jana--that's what I'm trying to do is think it out and talk it out to other folks as I'm so close to it that I'm not always sure I'm seeing what's right in front of my eyes.

I appreciate the tolerance while I wade my way through my brain.....

northernwitch wrote:

papaspugs wrote:I don't have any advice except sometimes it does help to talk it out and get feedback. Some many people have offered some great suggestions and different angles of thought. Sometimes I have to talk things out to figure out if I am on the right course or if I need to adjust and steer in a different direction. I think that it's okay to say "yeah, but" you have so much more historical information on him that you could even put into words. Hopefully talking through it will either make you feel better about what you are doing or not doing or it will help you see another perspective. Also, as people age their immune systems get weaker. There might not be anything in the bloodwork that shows this, but it could be a contributing factor even though you can't put your finger on it in a tangible way. I think that Tank is so lucky to have you.

Thanks Jana--that's what I'm trying to do is think it out and talk it out to other folks as I'm so close to it that I'm not always sure I'm seeing what's right in front of my eyes.

I appreciate the tolerance while I wade my way through my brain.....

What Jana said makes perfect sense. Talking it out/over can help with a different perspective. And you do know Tank better than any of us. And what you said about too much immune boosting makes perfect sense. Remember that cortisol/prednisone is a hormone produced, in part, in response to stress, so he may need a bit more in high-stress situations. The problem with our furkids is that they can't tell us what is stressing them out!

thminis wrote:Did they culture it? That's the only way they'll know the bacteria that is there and therefore what medication it could be sensitive to.

Staph infections scare the hell out of me. Not in a overly dramatic way, but in a very realistic way. My mom had MRSA a few years ago. MRSA is a very, very resistant form of staph that she picked up from a hospital (it lives in the super clean areas). Working at a vet's, we've seen staph infections, oddly enough, mostly in dogs' ears.

I know you said Tank is responding well to the meds, but I'd be inclinded to think if it is staph again, it's still the same infection as before. I know staph infections can be very much less severe than MRSA like my mom had, but with hers, it was so resistant that she was on IV meds for weeks, and needed bone scans after to make sure it hadn't gotten into her bloodstream. Like I said, I don't think Tank's infection is at that level, this is just my experience with the bacteria. Oh, and I would be very careful incase his staph infection can be transmitted to people (maybe your vet already told you if it is or not). If it is, I'm sure he/she told you to make sure you don't let his infection touch any open sores or lacerations.

So I don't know if my post helps at all...I guess just make sure there isn't a new bacteria that has popped up.

As for the immunosupression he deals with, that one's tough. Of course lessening stress along with good sleep and a good diet will help keep healthy. It's difficult because other dogs could be bringing in germs even if they aren't showing signs of being sick or germy. I think it makes sense to try holding off from fostering for a bit. It's worth a shot.

Believe me, I'm on the MRSA thing like a fly on crap. It's my big fear, but it is just staph and it isn't as yet MRSA--we have cultured it before and have cultured again, but don't have results as yet. My vet has seen MRSA a few times and doesn't believe this is it.

I've been ont he phone with a variety of naturopaths and dermatologists today about Tank and here's our number one theory. We think that he has never fully gotten rid of his yeast problems. And as he always seems to have a certain level of yeast infection that fluctuates, we believe that the yeast infection is the gateway for the staph.

So the plan right now is to treat the staph and then begin a fairly aggressive treatment of his yeast with colloidal silver, keto whatever you call it (sorry--I always blank on the name) and I'm going to modify his diet to eliminate anything that might be feeding the yeast.

We'll see where that takes us. I'm trying to get my hands on a soak that is used in Europe that is not currently available in North America that is a yeast eating fungus. A friend is in the process of negotiating to trial it here--I think it currently has FDA approval in the US, but is not yet available in Canada--when I know more, I'll let you guys know about it if you're interested.

The med is ketoconazole, and that really makes sense. Hugs to both of you!

Talking of modifying his diet to discourage yeast, maybe ask your naturopath whether adding a splash of raw unfiltered organic Apple Cider Vinegar to his drinking water to keep his ph slightly on the acidic side may help?
This would be contra-indicated if he or any others sharing the water bowl have issues with calcium oxalate crystals in the bladder but does assist in preventing struvite crystal formation caused by bacteria (including some forms of staph) in the bladder.

Hope I'm not out of line in suggesting that if you stress out too much over his prognosis he will be stressed too...I know you can think positive and still research effectively at the same time - GO GIRL!

Puggered wrote:Talking of modifying his diet to discourage yeast, maybe ask your naturopath whether adding a splash of raw unfiltered organic Apple Cider Vinegar to his drinking water to keep his ph slightly on the acidic side may help?
This would be contra-indicated if he or any others sharing the water bowl have issues with calcium oxalate crystals in the bladder but does assist in preventing struvite crystal formation caused by bacteria (including some forms of staph) in the bladder.

Hope I'm not out of line in suggesting that if you stress out too much over his prognosis he will be stressed too...I know you can think positive and still research effectively at the same time - GO GIRL!

LOL, Angela. I know--I can get caught in the vicious cycle of worrying about the fact that I'm worrying about the fact that I'm worrying.......
I do add Apple cider vinegar to his food, actually. It's part of the raw recipe I use.