Tell me about Raw Feeding

So....back when I first got my pugs, I had them eating Science Diet. Why? Because that is what was at the vet's office, and that is what they try to sell you.

By the time I was up to 3 pugs, and they were all looking fat (Yikes!), I decided to do a little research on my own and find out what was really in the food. So... I was appalled to discover how corn was the first or second ingredient! I did some research and decided on Holistic Select dry kibble. My puggies LOVE this food, they have all lost weight, and thier fur is nice and soft. I'm very, very happy with this food. And, even the vet commented they have very nice teeth too. I know some foods say "organic" or "holistic", and it is just marketing, but I do believe this is a high quality food, and they can backup thier claims.

Since joining here, I'm realizing there are some true food experts - so, fill me in! I want what is best for my babies. Why the raw diet. How does it work?

Renee, PM Hilary/Pug Pillow - she is an expert.

Hilary makes her own raw food, I believe which is a great way to go if you can manage it. I have a client who does this as well . I haven't been able to manage doing that, so I feed prepared frozen raw (Nature's Variety, Primal or Stella and Chewey's). I started Thurston on Raw at a young age to try and prevent diet-related illnesses and problems and it has been a success.

Of the different types of food, kibble is the least nutritional, canned is better and raw is the most nutritionally complete way to feed. However, it isn't for everyone for various reasons. If the raw meat grosses you out, Honest Kitchen or Ziwi Peak make good dehydrated raw foods. There's a lot of good information about dog foods out there. The Dog Food Project is a great site and The Whole Dog Journal is also a great resource (and a subscription isn't very expensive).

I'm far from being an expert, but I have had a few canine nutrition classes which have started me on my quest for more knowledge. It's a complicated subject with a lot of good information and mis-information out there. And, I find that many vets don't like the raw food option (which I saw is because it keeps me out of their office and spending money).

I have been feeding my girls the raw diet for over 3 years now. I prepare it at home myself once a month and freeze it. I researched the raw diet for 6 weeks before I finally felt comfortable switching. I'll try to remember when I get home to look at the names of the books that really helped me and I'll post them here. One that I do remember is called "Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats" by Kymythy Schultze. Some websites that really helped me were B Naturals. They have newsletters talking about the raw diet and how it works, how to prepare it, options, etc. This Yahoo Group was so amazing and so very helpful when I switched. They have a search feature too so you can do lots of searching and get answers there. Another website that is good that has names of books is this site. Hopefully this will get you started and like I said, I'll try to post later the names of those books.

Basically, to put it in short terms, you have to feed a certain percentage of their body weight. They say anywhere from 2-3% of their body weight. But being that pugs are not real active, my girls get just under 2% of their body weight when it comes to the amount of food that is fed daily. They require a certain amount of RMB (raw meaty bones). This is where they get their calcium. I grind up my RMB's though because I'm terrified of them choking. They don't chew their food, they just swallow it. Chicken bones are real soft and the only ones you can put through a grinder. So, they get Chicken Neck, Back, Thigh and Wing. I alternate 2 out of the 4 every month so for example, this month, they are getting chicken neck and thigh for their breakfast. Twice a week they get canned fish, whether it be salmon, sardines or mackerel. Then you have to give them muscle meat which is any meat without bone. I usually give them turkey, beef and pork and use 2 out of the 3 each month. Once a week they get beef heart for dinner. Then they get a small amount of organ meat which is either kidney or liver. I give them 50% RMB, 40% Muscle Meat and 10% Organ Meat. I also give them raw egg twice a week, fish oil 3 times a week because they need the Omega from the fish oil. And they get yogurt or cottage cheese 3 times a week. I do give them a little bit of veggies on top of their dinner.

Whew, this turned it to much longer of a post then I expected. Basically, it's almost like a science so do you see why I researched for 6 weeks? It sounds difficult but once you have it figured out, it is nothing at all. I hope this helps or at least get you started in the right direction on helping you answer questions about raw food.

ETA: The name of the other book is Dr Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats. Also "Switching to Raw" by Susan K Johnson, although it's not really a book but a spiral of notes that was helpful.

I've been feeding raw for 15 years. I use some pre-prepared and mostly the recipe that Hilary (Pugpillow) has. It doesn't work for every dog and in a very few cases it is not recommended (some severely immune compromised dogs), but in spite of predictions that I would kill my dogs, they've all thrived on it.

Hilary is our resident expert, but even she has learned new things as we've gone along. It can get complicated with some dogs due to health issues--like Tank as there are a number of things he can't or shouldn't eat, even with raw.

The secret to safe raw feeding for the most part is good food handling skills. Just like with us.

Hilary's Raw Feeding Article and Recipe (not sure this is the most current--Hilary can chime in if it's not):
After eleven years of feeding
supposedly high-quality vet-recommended kibble to my pugs, I switched to raw
feeding to try to better manage my dog’s extreme allergies and atopical
dermatitis which were becoming life-threatening. Kim-Soo had had
all the traditional tests, including food screening/elimination (kibble only)
and patch tests and it was determined she was allergic to house dust, mites,
grass, trees and ragweed, allergens hard for a dog to avoid! For eight
years we gave her bi-weekly allergy shots and spent thousands of dollars on vet
and specialist visits and medications such as prednisone, antibiotics and
cyclosporine. While useful in the very short term, the side effects of
some were horrific (that’s another story!), and the allergies persisted.

Within three weeks of switching to raw food, Kimmy’s hot spots and pustules
disappeared and her coat became shiny and soft. Within two months, her
eye goop had almost disappeared and her chronic ear infections improved
dramatically (I finished them off with Blue Powder treatment, a home-made
remedy I highly recommend ). Now at 12 years old, she is completely free
of allergy symptoms and hasn’t had any medication since she started raw food in
the summer of 2005!!!

Since switching, I have done a lot of research and have learned that raw
feeding can extend the length and quality of your dog’s life - some say by
30%. I have developed a feeding regimen based on my knowledge to
date. I am not an expert in nutrition, nor a health professional of any
kind, so I urge you to research and experiment for yourself. I just know
this works for my dogs. Be aware also that this recipe is for dogs with
normal health conditions. Those suffering from bladder stones, diabetes,
hyper- or hypothyroidism, Cushings’, etc. may need to have their diet modified.
I do not recommend it for puppies.

I serve my pugs two meals a day – a breakfast slop in the morning and raw meaty
bones, poultry, fish or green tripe in the evening. Here’s the recipe for
the morning meal:


“Melange du Matin” (otherwise known as “Breakfast
Slop”)

(makes about 40 – 3 oz. meals; preparation time: approximately 20
minutes)
5-6 lbs ground meat or ground chicken bones (if using the ground bones, omit
eggshells)
2-3 cups of pureed veggies/fruit – high % dark green
2 ozs. of organ parts - liver, hearts, gizzards
1/2 cup apple cider vinegar, preferably organic
2 cloves of garlic, crushed
1/2 cup of plain no-fat yogurt (containing active bacteria), or kefir
2-3 tbsp. ground kelp
3 eggs with shells, finely ground
a handful of fresh parsley, chopped
3-4 tbsp. of natural coconut oil
1 large can of pure pumpkin (not the pie-filling kind) or equivalent in fresh
form

Put all ingredients except ground meat bones and canned pumpkin through a food
processor (a worthwhile investment) and when mixed, combine well with meat and
pumpkin. Freeze in individual portions. My pugs (weighing
approximately from 13 to 23 lbs. each) get 3 oz. in the morning and for dinner
get a serving of meat, poultry, fish or tripe (discussed below). I adjust
their portions according to whether they need to gain or lose weight .

Here are the benefits of the ingredients:

• meat is the staple of the
  diet and a protein source
  
• fruits and veggies are a
  source of fibre, vitamins & minerals and antioxidants. Green leafy
  veggies are high in vitamin E
  
• garlic helps prevent blood
  clots and adds flavour. It should be used in moderation in a canine
  diet
  
• apple cider vinegar contains
  trace minerals; see http://www.lacetoleather.com/wonderdrug.html
  
• no-fat yoghurt contains
  Lactobacillis Acidophilus, a good bacteria for the stomach and bowel
  
• kelp provides iodine which
  helps the thyroid; omit it if your dog has hyperthyroidism. Kelp is
  also an antioxidant and source of thyroxine and riboflavin and many other
  vitamins and minerals.
  
• eggs with shells: shells are
  a wonderful source of calcium (carbonate); add them ground (I use a coffee
  grinder). The ground bones are also full of calcium so omit the
  eggshells when using them.
  
• parsley: see http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=100
  
• coconut oil: see http://www.mercola.com/2001/mar/24/coconut_oil.htm
  

To this “mélange”, you can, if you think necessary, add supplements such
vitamin B, vitamin E, cottage cheese, yucca, Wobenzym, slippery elm, bee
pollen, calcium carbonate powder (not if using ground bones), grapefruit seed
extract, probiotics, etc. I grind with mortar and pestle and add separately
whatever each dog needs. The kelp, coconut oil, bee pollen and vitamins can be
bought at health food stores and, in some cases, in grocery or big box stores
(Walmart, Costco, etc.). Note that freezing damages vitamins B and
E. Yucca and Wobenzym are for arthritis. Vitamin B and bee pollen
are to boost the immune system. Slippery elm powder is a stomach
remedy. Calcium carbonate powder is a necessary calcium supplement if the
diet contains predominately phosphorus–rich foods (such as ground meat,
poultry, fish and organ tissues) and is deficient in digestible bones.
Grapefruit seed extract is for systemic yeast problems. I do not add
supplements unless I think necessary for the particular dog. In fact,
once stabilized, my dogs get supplements very infrequently.

I used to supplement with fish oil but have stopped since using coconut
oil. If you prefer fish oil, you can pour the contents of a 1000 mg
capsule of Salmon/Wild fish Oil over their portion about 3-4 times a week for
an Omega-3 boost. It is cleaned of contaminants which are so often found
nowadays in various fish, including farmed fish. Fish and vegetable oils
contain long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids that are prone to oxidation in
the body and use up vitamin E to prevent that. So if you do add fish oil, also
add Vitamin E as replenishment. Coconut oil, on the other hand, is a saturated
fat consisting of short- and medium-chain fatty acids, and does not oxidize
easily in the body, so extra vitamin E is not required if there is an adequate
amount in the diet. Coconut oil actually enhances the absorption of vitamin E.

Be watchful for allergies such as lactose intolerance (cottage cheese, yoghurt,
cheese) and grains (flaxseed, wheat germ, alfalfa etc.). Introduce new
ingredients gradually or be prepared for throw-ups/diarrhea/constipation for a
while as the stomach adjusts to becoming more acidic. By the way, canned
pure pumpkin (not the pie filling kind) or slippery elm powder are great to
regularize bowel movements and are fantastic overall for dogs.

Raw meaty bones (digestible) should make up about 50-60% of the total diet (for
high calcium content). The key word in this phrase is “meaty”. 20-30%
should consist of meat/poultry/fish and organs (preferably including green
tripe). About 10% should be veggies and fruit (preferably over-ripe) and the
rest should be eggs, oils and supplements. Another way to look at it is
to imagine how a wild dog or wolf eats. They will kill or find prey and
devour the whole carcass – meat, bones and innards. You can think of what
they eat in these terms – approximately 10-15% is digestible bone and 10-15% is
offal (organs); the rest is meat. Don’t try to overthink the
proportions. Just try to mimic what they would eat in nature, with the
emphasis on raw meat. Don’t overdo the organs or you will have loose
bowel problems.

Dogs have no need for carbohydrates in their diet and I avoid grains completely
because of their allergenic properties. Some raw feeders claim that fruit
and vegetables have no part to play in canine nutrition. While not
absolutely necessary, partly digested vegetables and fruit are found in the stomachs
of prey, and I believe that they are a good source of fibre in the diet,
contain vitamins and minerals, and provide cancer-fighting antioxidants. And
the dogs love them – ever watch a dog rooting around for rotten fruit under an
apple tree?

Every batch of slop is different (depending on what’s on sale or in the house)
but each contains a high proportion of green leafy stuff. The veggies I choose
from for the pureed mixture include romaine, spinach (preferably organic),
Swiss chard, bok choy, collards, green beans, peas (not many), carrots, celery,
cucumber, parsnips, sweet potato, squash, bean sprouts, etc. Often I will
freeze leftovers from raw veggies we serve (particularly leftover undressed
salad or crudités) and use these; it doesn’t matter if they go all soggy when
they defrost as they are going into a puree anyway. You can also use
potatoes, tomatoes, eggplants and peppers (capiscum) unless your dogs have
arthritis, respiratory problems or any signs of inflammation, swelling or
mucous. I also avoid beets (too much sugar, which encourages yeast
). Don’t overfeed cruciferous veggies (broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage,
Brussels sprouts, kale, watercress, radishes, rutabagas/turnips) as they can
lower thyroid function. Fruits can be melons, peeled apples (not too much
– acidic), bananas, blueberries (not too many to avoid diarrhea), cranberries
(not too much, but good for the urinary system) and pear. Not grapes nor
raisins as these are toxic over time. If your dog has thyroid problems, I would
avoid fruits and veggies until you know which ones are okay; most of them
aren’t. Also, if your dog has kidney problems or urinary
stones/infections, you need to modify this diet.

Pureeing veggies and fruits enables the body to absorb the nutrients so all
those vitamins and minerals don’t end up on your lawn. My pugs only poop
once a day, occasionally twice, because their bodies are processing the food
efficiently. The only solid veggies and fruit I serve are for treats and are
frequently dehydrated (a slice of sweet potato, turnip, apple or pear). I
NEVER give dog biscuits as most contain grains, to which many dogs are really
allergic, and sugar. Occasionally I treat with dehydrated chicken livers
(maximum 2 because they are so rich and too many will cause diarrhea).
Instead of rawhide chews (which cause intestinal problems and choking), I give
them strips of dehydrated white tripe; they don’t last as long, but they’re
better for them. I avoid Greenies like the plague.

I pour the breakfast slop mixture into large ice cube trays (IKEA has some good
rubber ones) and freeze. Serve defrosted. In the morning, when I
take their breakfast out of the fridge, I move another batch from the freezer
to the fridge so it’s ready for the next day (it defrosts well and safely in
the fridge). I do the same with the evening meal – as I’m serving the
meal, I get the next night’s meal out of the freezer so it can defrost in the
fridge for 24 hours. Easy as pie and prevents any problems of bacterial
contamination.

For dinner, the dogs get meat, poultry, fish (twice a week) or green tripe
(usually mixed with something). Raw meaty bones (e.g. raw chicken
drumsticks) should account for some of these meals. Make sure they get a wide
range of meats/poultry/fish – choose from chicken, beef (freeze at least 72
hours to destroy bacteria), pork (same), lamb, rabbit, turkey, duck, goose,
deer, venison, goat, bison, oxtails, etc. Ethnic butchers are good
sources for the more “exotic” meats. Avoid uninspected venison (i.e. direct
from hunters) as there is a parasite in many deer in Ontario; also, it is
illegal to buy from unauthorized sources.

Some dogs are allergic to some meats – it’s trial and error. But don’t
assume that they are allergic if they throw up a food for the first time; it
takes a while for the stomach to develop the different digestive enzymes
necessary to process raw foods, if they’re not used to it. Dogs are not
vulnerable to bacteria such as salmonella unless their immune system is highly
compromised; just think about them burying and digging up bones weeks
later! However, because of human vulnerability, make sure you use proper
hygiene practices when dealing with raw meat. And I don’t let them kiss
me right after a meal!

Meat and bones (wings/thighs, neck/backs/spines etc.) should always be served
RAW, never cooked. Cooked bones splinter and can choke and kill your
dog. Bone is important for the calcium content and to keep their
teeth free of tartar. Some people avoid serving weight-bearing bones such
as thigh but I don’t worry about chicken and turkey thighs unless the poultry
is free-range (the fowl have stronger bones). Except for marrow bones
(too big to swallow) and long lamb bones, they eat most boney things up
completely. Marrow bones and lamb bones are mainly for recreation rather
than calcium intake. They love them. So do I because they keep the dogs
occupied for quite a while. Don’t worry about the fat on the bones;
unlike for humans, the fat is processed easily by their acidic digestive system
(if they are eating raw). Of course, a steady diet of high fat intake can
lead to pancreatitis, so moderation is the key. Bones and raw food are
messy and ugly so feed them outside or confined to a cleanable space.
Caution: always supervise the dogs closely when eating bones. I cannot stress
this too much. If you have a “gulper”, you may have to hold the bone
while they learn to chew at it. I often take their bones away if they
become too small, too sharp or of a shape that I consider could cause
blockage/choking. I also remove their recreational lamb bones when I am
not around.

Balance in the diet is crucial. A variety of proteins in the diet builds
better muscle mass, including the heart. Here’s what I feed mine:

chicken: any part - wings, thighs, necks or backs (carcasses), breast or leg
meat, organs; I get ground meaty chicken bones from the butcher for under $1/lb
for the basis of the breakfast slop.
turkey: any part - wings, thighs, necks or backs (carcasses), breast or leg
meat, organs; raw turkey bones tend to be large and sharp after chewed for a
while, even when uncooked. I take them away when they get too sharp or
small enough to swallow whole.
pork: picnic shoulder, pork roast, ground pork (also used for breakfast
slop), etc.
beef: marrow bones, heart, stewing beef, ground beef (also used for breakfast
slop), riblets, etc.
lamb: stew bones, shanks, ground
rabbit: meaty bones and meat
goat: meaty bones. Supervise the eating of these very closely!!!!

Every couple of weeks, they get defrosted fresh “green” (unbleached) tripe, a
truly great source of nourishment. Beware - it stinks !! You buy
the whole stomach and cut it up into bite-size small portions, a nasty job but
worthwhile for your dogs as it is a wonderful source of Omega-3. Green
tripe has a low PH (higher acidity) which aids digestion. It also has the
wonderful calcium to phosphorus ratio of 1:1 !! You can buy canned green
tripe (available on-line) but I don’t believe the nutritional value is as good.
Green tripe is fairly rich so I add a small amount (about 3 tbsp) to another
meat.

About once or twice a week the dogs get fish, preferably fresh or frozen
whole. The heads and innards contain valuable oils and nutrients that
fillets and canned fish don’t provide as well. I buy frozen whole
sardines at the grocery store and serve one fish (approximately 6 inches long)
each, including the head; (I do take the tail off because it’s sharp although
this is not necessary for bigger dogs). I also buy pollock fillets which are
cleaner and not as smelly. If I’ve forgotten to defrost something or am
in a hurry, I will serve canned fish (jack mackerel, sardines), rinsed well to
get rid of excess salt. Just make sure you buy the fish canned in water
or brine (rinse VERY well) and not some other sauce! A good mix of fish
is recommended to minimize intake of contaminants (lead, mercury, etc.).
Avoid Pacific Northwest Salmon as it can cause acute bowel problems. Also
avoid Atlantic salmon; the wild stuff is endangered and the farmed stuff is not
only lacking in nutrients but full of parasites and high toxic levels (PCBs,
etc.).

I don’t recommend serving a mixture of kibble and raw food, especially not at
the same meal. Some experts say that the PH levels necessary in the stomach
for digestion are different for kibble and raw so one or the other will not be
efficiently processed. However, I would rather you serve both kibble and raw
than not feed raw at all! I’ve given up kibble completely because I’m
serving a balanced raw diet. I also avoid cooking meat; experts say that
the chemistry of meat changes with heat and the result is tantamount to serving
your dog a form of polymer (plastic) that their digestive system can’t
process. Another reason to avoid kibble which is heat-processed. A
big benefit to feeding your own raw mixture is the reduced risk of potentially
fatal contamination as seen in commercial pet food recalls.

If you’re new to raw feeding, monitor for constipation or really hard stools
(very hard or white stools suggests you’re feeding too much ingested bones) and
feed pure pumpkin and/or dehydrated chicken livers to loosen things up.
Their bodies will adapt over time. It is also a good idea to get a blood
workup at your annual vet visit. It may take a few weeks to see a
difference. In the meantime, your pup may be expelling toxins from
previous food and meds, especially if they’ve been exposed to either for a long
time. This can show up in eye goop, mucous-covered stools, etc. You
can aid this detoxification by adding Ultimate Liver Cleanse or Milk Thistle to
the slop (both available at health food stores and some supermarkets). Be
patient and give it at least a month or better, two months. In my
experience the results of raw are fantastic – better overall health, shinier
coat, better weight control (even though they’re eating more), fewer stools and
management of allergies. I love it and so do my dogs!

Wow, this is a lot of information to "disgest"...hehe. Thanks for posting. I'll be doing some serious research now.

Thanks for posting this, Blanche. It hasn't changed materially since that version although I've cut back a little on the bone content at night. Renee, once you've absorbed most of the info (and checked it out with other sources!), please feel free to PM me with questions. I regularly get feedback from people whom I've coached through the process telling me what a difference it has made to their dog.