Anxiety in dogs??

Little Miss Violet has always been a kind of high-strung dog. She's leash-aggressive, food-aggressive, can be toy-aggressive and is generally just what I call "anxious." I've taken her to training in the past. It did not go well. I tried to keep up with the training at home, but I find she is so stubborn and distractable that she doesn't even really respond to positive reinforcement. She can completely ignore treats. I haven't taken her to any specific behaviour specialists - don't really know anyone in the area and don't want to run into someone who uses negative methods.

She worries me because we can't even really take her on nice walks without her lunging and pulling down the street. I've tried all the positive methods to try to stop the pulling. She'll bark at people like crazy and just gets so distracted that she can't really focus. People are scared of her. She also barks at every noise inside and outside the house. She can also be aggressive to Milo at times (not often) and other female dogs, like my mom's dog, Daisy. Daisy is also very anxious, like Violet. She did something bad the other day, which I'm totally mortified about and which she has never done before. She nipped a girl's hand when we were out walking. Mind you, the girl was very excitable and stuck her hand right in Violet's face and Violet just got scared, I think. She has never done this before and I'm not concerned that she would do it to any of our family members or friends. It just kind of freaked me out because I was worried that she'd be reported for biting. I feel like I can't really take her anywhere without being afraid now of something like this happening. It's impossible to enjoy a walk with her.

I haven't talked to the vet about her behaviour yet. I kind of feel like a failure because I can't control her. Inside the house, she's the sweetest thing. She's so loyal and loving. I can cuddle her and carry her and you can do just about anything to her. She's not nasty in any way towards Dave or myself or my family. She does fight a bit with Milo, but nothing major and he does growl at her over toys, so I know the triggers. I'm just wondering if she's an anxious dog and maybe if medication might help with her focus and her anxiety behaviours.

I know training is the way to go, but I cannot get her to focus. She is totally wild on walks and there is nothing that has worked so far to distract her. I want her to have an enjoyable life and not always be scared of taking her out or her biting people by accident. She's my baby and I love her so much. Just sad that we can't take her out as much as we'd like. I don't know if anyone has any experience with anti-anxiety meds in dogs, but if you do, I would love to hear the stories. I really want to ask the vet what she thinks and if it might help Violet.

Adrianna, first off, you are not a failure. I'm going to try to make this post short and to the point, but feel absolutely free to send me a PM if you'd like to talk more (or just respond to this thread).

I have a female pug who is exactly what you described - anxious. She has some similar and some different issues. Her big one is spinning in fast circles while screaming, but she also will randomly (or not randomly) attack Reggie my calm male. She has triggers like high value chews/treats, doorbells, people leaving/going, putting on shoes, etc. She is not very friendly to outside dogs and does not care to hang out with strangers or people outside the family.

I know your pain of trying everything before resorting to medications. And I even more so know what you mean by she isn't responding to training. I have always been able to train our pugs and other dogs, but not Bella. She knew sit, and that was all. I would try every day to teach her other things like laying down, but she would quickly get bored/frustrated and walk away (or clearly try to leave) despite any treats. And forget about trying to get her to focus when she is stressed out or having an anxiety attack. It's like she physically cannot hear us. It's actually really hard to watch her because she is so helpless and stressed.

So yes. We tried the training methods (positive reinforcement, de-sensitizing, distractions...you name it). We tried walking her to the point of exhaustion...didn't help and she doesn't even enjoy walks unless they're at the forest preserve and with Reggie. I don't know if you remember Wonka and Nilla and their mom from PV, but I talked a lot with her about Nilla's anxiety, too. It was a bit different since Nilla was a rescue, but that really helped me figure things out. But finally, we spoke to a vet's where I work about anti anxiety meds.

Bella has been on .25 mg of Alprazolam for at least a year now (we finally found a good dose...it has increased a bit since the original trial dose). It's an anti anxiety that we fill her rx at Walgreens. It's the same medication our doctors will prescribe to help with fireworks/storm anxiety in dogs. It's a hard choice. I don't believe there is too much research for it in dogs, but there is some for people. The biggest thing I remind my family of is that there are studies that show, in people, if stopped short and without a tapper, it can cause seizures. But, Bella has really had bad side effects (knock on wood). I know it sounds crazy, but literally the first time she had her first pill, I was able to teach her to lay down on command within 20 minutes. And now, if she gets her dose a bit late, it is soooo obvious. She still spins and still has minor anxiety, but the difference is extremely noticeable.

So please, don't feel like you've failed Violet. Some dogs are just high anxiety. Think of it this way, how many horrible people out there would just give up and give her away or kennel her 24/7. You're still trying your hardest to do right by one of your fur kids, and in the midst of being pregnant!! But yeah, I know my response is lengthy, but let me know if you have any questions.

Adrianna - don't beat your self up!!

My Ichiro is somewhat like this. I am ashamed to admit this too, but he has bitten at least 2 kids in our neighborhood. It breaks my heart, but he is not allowed out of our yard, kids are not allowed in our yard (except my own kids), and my kids are not allowed to take him on any walks. He doesn't seem to act anxious in the house, although any little noise will get a bark out of him.

I'll be interested to see what others have to say.

This is by far the best book on anxiety, aggression, fear, and reactivity there is out there. I strongly suggest reading it.

http://www.amazon.com/Click-Calm-Healing-Aggressive-Clicker/dp/1890948209/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283318269&sr=8-1

It's helped my friend in England who's dog used to lunge at cars, birds, cats, other dogs, shoes, her family, etc. He'd shut off to treats, toys and praise while reacting before this book and now it's lowered his anxiety levels to where he'll respond to rewards and had made leaps and bounds of progress very quickly.

Eli was turned into DFWPR for repeatedly biting his family. He came with a huge file of medical and training paperwork. Yvette called me after she'd had him for a day or two and told me she had Cujo and I needed to come and get him. He bit me on the ride home from Yvette's. He was overweight, surly and scared. Eli obviously had something wrong and he had a few vet visits to try to find out what was going on. He had to be muzzled at the vets and while there, the vet recommended Clomicalm. After a few vet visits, the vet decided Eli has some neurological issues. From what I understand, Eli (or Pugsley, the name he came with) had been loved and the family really tried and took the effort to drive from San Antonio to surrender him to DFWPR and Eli's issues appear to stem from bad breeding.

I started him on the Clomicalm and the vet said it would take several weeks for it to start working and in the meantime, I worked on training in conjunction with the Clomicalm. Eli was a wild thing at first, I took him to work with me so we could start on socialization. He tried to bite anyone that came close enough to him and over the weeks, Eli started to improve. He got a Clomicalm twice a day and he stayed on them for about 4 months. I attribute a huge part of his improvement to the drug. I don't think he would've gotten so much better so fast without it. After the 4 months, we started to wean him off the drugs and within a month or two he didn't need them anymore.

Eli is still a nutjob, but he's a nutjob that I can take out in public, he's happy, confident, (sometimes too confident) and is a loved member of the family, he'll never be normal, but he's managable, which is what it sounds like you're looking for. In the meantime, they've come out with some more drugs for anxiety in dogs and I'd definitely recommend talking to your vet about something that might help Violet. So many people think that the dog will be on drugs for the rest of his or her life, but that's not true.

There's also a fabulous book by Brenda Aloff called "Aggression in Dogs" that's worth looking into. I know you haven't had any luck with training, but hopefully with the combination of anti-anxiety meds and a sound training program, you'll start to see results.

thanks for the suggestions, everyone. i'm going to make an appointment with the vet for violet. i just want her to live a happy life with us. i would never give up on her. i love her too much for that, but i also do not want her to be seen as the crazy, vicious, scary dog in the outside world. just want her to be safe and able to enjoy family outings. i know she would never hurt anyone intentionally, but i think her anxiety gets the better of her. wish me luck. i'm going to call the vet today to make an appointment and also look into those books that two of you mentioned.

thminis wrote:
I have a female pug who is exactly what you described - anxious. She has some similar and some different issues. Her big one is spinning in fast circles while screaming, but she also will randomly (or not randomly) attack Reggie my calm male. She has triggers like high value chews/treats, doorbells, people leaving/going, putting on shoes, etc. She is not very friendly to outside dogs and does not care to hang out with strangers or people outside the family.

this is violet exactly. she attacks the boys randomly at times, too. basil is the only one who can control her. it's not often, but it happens. the triggers that you mention are exactly the same.

i hope my vet will be open to discussing this. my biggest fear is that she'll think i'm just trying to drug her to deal with her...

Buddy has been on prozac for almost 2 years. He is almost unmanagable without it. He is a resource guarder and will attack the girls and after having to have a tube put in Zoe's ear to drain the blood I was at my wits end. It has made a world of difference. I tried to wean him off once (VERY slowly) and he was so agitated that he was miserable.

Adrianna:
Once you've ruled out any medical issues, you absolutely need to get in touch with Joan Weston. She runs her own company called Fangs but No Fangs. She is an aggression specialist, a canine behaviourist and a great trainer. She has done all the assessment on the Pugalug rescue dogs and has done much of the training for my foster folks. She runs bulldog rescue and has a pug or pugs (I've forgotten if she has one or two). Medication maybe what you need to do, but you need to get her assessed before you move to meds, in my opinion.

Her website is www.k9shrink.ca

If you've ever seen the pugs and the bulldogs in the SuperDogs, that is Joan and her dogs. She only uses positive training methods and there is not any one else I would trust.

northernwitch wrote:If you've ever seen the pugs and the bulldogs in the SuperDogs, that is Joan and her dogs. She only uses positive training methods and there is not any one else I would trust.

Not all the Pugs. There's a lady by the name of Lisa Sun from BC who has had 2 or 3 of her Pugs in SuperDogs.

But Joan looks to be excellent at training and she's someone i would strongly support.

MandyPug wrote:

northernwitch wrote:If you've ever seen the pugs and the bulldogs in the SuperDogs, that is Joan and her dogs. She only uses positive training methods and there is not any one else I would trust.

Not all the Pugs. There's a lady by the name of Lisa Sun from BC who has had 2 or 3 of her Pugs in SuperDogs.

But Joan looks to be excellent at training and she's someone i would strongly support.

Whatever. The point is that Violet needs a competent behavioural assessment before moving to medicating her.

thanks, blanche. i'm going to look into that website right now.

The ASPCA also has an amazing virtual pet behaviorist website with a ton of good info-- http://www.aspcabehavior.org. Gentle hugs to Miss Violet and strong wishes that all gets sorted out for you.

so, september 21st, the trainer that blanche recommended is coming! i'm hoping all goes well and i'll learn some things.

also, thanks, blanche! you got me a discount on the session since i told them that you referred me!

I called Blanche today to talk to her about this same thing.... Not with any of my crew, but a client couple that have a wonderful 5 year old male that they bring to my shop to bathe themselves. He bit a family member yesterday and she had to get stitches.

They got "advice" from a newer local vet and that &^*#@ told them they had two choices. Put him down or send him to a no kill shelter. I'm as upset as the owners that this vet told them that. I gave them the little advise that I had, and then thought of Blanche knowing that she would be able to know how to help them out much better. Thank you Blanche!!

Tonight after working out, I'm still steamed at the vet that I am going to call him tomorrow and say.... well, not quite sure what yet. But for sure he will know that I will not be referring anyone to him.

Good luck with Violet, I'm very interested in what you find out!

FurSprinklers wrote:I called Blanche today to talk to her about this same thing.... Not with any of my crew, but a client couple that have a wonderful 5 year old male that they bring to my shop to bathe themselves. He bit a family member yesterday and she had to get stitches.

They got "advice" from a newer local vet and that &^*#@ told them they had two choices. Put him down or send him to a no kill shelter. I'm as upset as the owners that this vet told them that. I gave them the little advise that I had, and then thought of Blanche knowing that she would be able to know how to help them out much better. Thank you Blanche!!

Tonight after working out, I'm still steamed at the vet that I am going to call him tomorrow and say.... well, not quite sure what yet. But for sure he will know that I will not be referring anyone to him.

Good luck with Violet, I'm very interested in what you find out!

what? that's ridiculous! some vets just have no idea. if mine ever said that to me, i'd be switching vets very quickly!!!

Not sure if you remember but my Wellie was having some major urinary problems . After a full work up at the vets and everything coming back negative and a vet who was no help at all. I watched him like a hawk and he was becoming obssive with the water bowl. I decided to try Dog appeasing Pheromones or DAP. I tried the plug in first but then switched over to the spray which I spray on their beds. Voila problem 99percent solved. Just wondering if this might help your Violet?

Old Mother Hubbard wrote:Not sure if you remember but my Wellie was having some major urinary problems . After a full work up at the vets and everything coming back negative and a vet who was no help at all. I watched him like a hawk and he was becoming obssive with the water bowl. I decided to try Dog appeasing Pheromones or DAP. I tried the plug in first but then switched over to the spray which I spray on their beds. Voila problem 99percent solved. Just wondering if this might help your Violet?

we have tried DAP when my mom's dog comes over, but it hasn't made any difference. i don't think violet responds to it at all.

Puglove2 wrote:so, september 21st, the trainer that blanche recommended is coming! i'm hoping all goes well and i'll learn some things.

also, thanks, blanche! you got me a discount on the session since i told them that you referred me!

LOL--I refer alot of business to Joan. She's great, Adrianna, but she's blunt as hell so be prepared for that.

northernwitch wrote:

Puglove2 wrote:so, september 21st, the trainer that blanche recommended is coming! i'm hoping all goes well and i'll learn some things.

also, thanks, blanche! you got me a discount on the session since i told them that you referred me!

LOL--I refer alot of business to Joan. She's great, Adrianna, but she's blunt as hell so be prepared for that.

okay, well, as long as she doesn't tell me something that will seriously make me cry, like i have to get rid of violet, then i will be okay. i'm hormonal, though, so let's hope it doesn't cause a meltdown! lol!