proud owner of 4 puppies looking for some tips :)

Since I am new, I don't know whether I should open a topic or there allready is one like this, but I'm so happy, I just have to say it :))

My two year old Lady, just gave birth to four amazing puppies. It's here first time, and the samo goes for me and my family.
I would be more than thankfull if anyone more expirienced could give me some tips. Till now, everything is fine, expect that Lady had shown herself as quite a lousy mother, she doesn't want to have anything with the pupps, she barks when they make noises and looks totally indiffirent. Is it possible that she is still in pain (she had cesarian) and that her mathernal instinct will develop later on or just pugs bad mothers?

Pugs are generally horrible mothers.

This is typically found out before breeding occurs during the research period where one reads every book on pugs and breeding there is, they're horrible mothers and often don't feed their pups or express their poop at all and just want away from the little screaming terrors and to be the centre of attention again.

I'd recommend contacting your breeding mentor who should be guiding you through the whole process as well as your bitch's breeder (who obviously knows you've shown this dog to a Ch. as per contract and now have bred her so will be happy to help continue her bloodline) and they should be able to give you a ton of advice.


ETA: Welcome to PA btw... Why don't you introduce yourself in the intro section and show us some pictures?

Thank you, but I've already did that.

I knew that most of them were bad mothers, before she mated :)

I'm more looking to hear other people's personal expiriances, maybe I'll learn something new, something that I still don't know.

Thank you, anyway.

Welcome to PA.

Unfortunately, most of us are not breeders and have not bred our pugs and many of us work in rescue so have only limited experience in dealing with new puppies.

If you can find a good breeder in your area, ask if they will help you. You will need to make the mother feed the pups and keep them warm. If she will not clean them, then you will have to massage their bottoms to encourage them to excrete. Be prepared to be up every two hours or so for the next couple of weeks.

Really important that you get someone local to help you with this. The death rate can be very high with pug puppies.

and good luck with your new babies. It's a hard job.

I am not convinced that this is for real

I think things are a little different in Slovenia...

Puggered wrote:I think things are a little different in Slovenia...

Meaning what?

Anyway, things are turning for the best, eventhough the vet said that pugs are mostly lousy mothers and it's even worse when they have a cesarian, Lady was only a bad mother for the first day. Since then, she doesn't part from the babies. They're doing great and getting bigger and bigger with every single day.But we have a small problem with one small guy who is always trying to leave the box and looks so disoriented :)

You will soon realize many of us on this forum are very involved in rescue and all of our rescues are completely overwhelmed with pugs coming in. We (SE Pug Rescue) have a waiting list of pugs waiting to come into our care. So, most of us aren't breeders. We are not against *good* breeding, but are not into just breeding for the heck if it since there are already so many pugs in need.

Yes, I've noticed that. And I guess that's the main difference between USA and smaller countries in Europe. Especially here in the Balkan, shelters like that do not exist. There are shelters for homeless dogs, but there you can't find any pugs. And it's too bad that people here are not used to adopt dogs from those shelters, so they all end up tragically. Just to be clear, I didn't breed my pug in order to sell the pugs, I'm going to keep the all. One pug goes to the owner of the male pug, and the rest stay with me and my family. We have a big house and we can provide them everything they need. Yet, I won't breed any other dog that I have, i think we have enough, four pugs and one dogo argentino, it's a full house :)

ladypenny wrote:Yes, I've noticed that. And I guess that's the main difference between USA and smaller countries in Europe. Especially here in the Balkan, shelters like that do not exist. There are shelters for homeless dogs, but there you can't find any pugs. And it's too bad that people here are not used to adopt dogs from those shelters, so they all end up tragically. Just to be clear, I didn't breed my pug in order to sell the pugs, I'm going to keep the all. One pug goes to the owner of the male pug, and the rest stay with me and my family. We have a big house and we can provide them everything they need. Yet, I won't breed any other dog that I have, i think we have enough, four pugs and one dogo argentino, it's a full house :)

I'm glad that you're understanding of our, perhaps, subdued welcome. We see such tragedy and such abuse of pugs that we are often pretty cautious around folks who are breeding.

While most of us aren't anti-breeder, we do tend to discourage breeding that isn't part of improving the breed, adhering to genetic and health testing, and done with extreme caution and care.

Breeding for profit (puppy mills) is a major industry in North America--and you should also know that there is a HUGE importing of pugs, frenchies, etc, from Eastern Europe that is just as bad. It's become trendy to get a dog from Europe and many of them have been badly bred and have significant health issues. I know that the French Bulldog rescues, in particular, are seeing an increasing number of very ill dogs that have been imported. Hungary seems to be doing a booming business......

We just don't see a lot of "good" breeding so tend to be cautious. Many of us have dogs that came through our rescues in atrocious shape due to the careless and wanton breeding practices. One of them is my Hazel. She was bought and sold over the internet for years--going from puppy mill to puppy mill--and ended up in Canada with a breeder. After she gave birth to a litter of dead puppies who were little more than mush, the breeder surrendered her to our rescue. She was thin and had clearly been bred many, many times. She was also blind due to dry eye that had been untreated (and that she likely passed on to her many puppies). She nearly died of pyometra--probably would have had she not been in rescue. When our rescue had her spayed, the vet had to do a tummy tuck as her abdomen was so stretched out that it dragged in the snow and would have impaired the healing of her spay incision. I adopted her in 2006 and she had to ultimately have both her eyes removed.

However, she is a happy girl now. This is my girl, Hazel:
[img][/img]

Ohh, that is so sad story, I feel bad for Hazel, but she had luck, I don't even one try to imagine some worse case scenarios, it's so sad. I'm glad that we don't have that problem here, at least not yet. But, I was wondering, aren't there any laws that control this increasing import and breeding? It would be more difficult to control breeding, but what's with the import?

ladypenny wrote:Ohh, that is so sad story, I feel bad for Hazel, but she had luck, I don't even one try to imagine some worse case scenarios, it's so sad. I'm glad that we don't have that problem here, at least not yet. But, I was wondering, aren't there any laws that control this increasing import and breeding? It would be more difficult to control breeding, but what's with the import?

There are some laws around commercial breeding and importing dogs, but most are easily gotten around and paperwork can always be forged. And as long as the breeder importing dogs can show they are "licensed" and have paid their fees then not much can be done. The country of origin has to crack down on the breeders. And most of the folks importing are making a ton of money on these dogs--charging $2,000 and up per puppy.

Sorry for the bitchy post. I just see so many pugs with genetic ailments that could have been prevented with simple genetic testing.

That's my biggest issue with breeding like you have done (unless you've actually had the DNA testing done and other genetic testing, then just ignore me). Things like Pug Dog Encephalitus can now be tested for carriers, without that test you're playing Russian Roulette with the puppies you produce. Other ailments like patellar luxation (kneecap slips in and out, very painful), hip dysplasia (hip sockets too shallow for normal movement, very painful and debilitating), Legg-Calve-Perthes Disease (degeneration of the ball joint on the femur due to cut off blood flow to the bone, again painful and debilitating), as well as a whole host of eye diseases. I do know in Europe this testing is available, OFA will take digital copies of x-rays done by your vet to grade for joints and you can order a PDE testing kit easily. BOTH the sire and dam should've had these tests done.

Though you're keeping all the pups and never doing this again i suppose I'm wasting my breath but maybe someone else might lurk and see my long diatribe. Bottom line, your bitch could've died and the parents could've passed on debilitating diseases and deformities to the puppies. To me breeding your pet because she's "lovely" is wrong, you could've killed your beloved pet and that would've been devastating especially since you lost your last pug so traumatically.

You'll see a lot of rescuers here, and while i don't rescue i support rescue efforts but i am more on the health side (though the rescuers have seen the worst of the worst). Some of us are also cold and right to the point, i for one won't dance around an issue such as health testing.

ETA: You may not have known anything about the genetic testing or the genetic problems that plague Pugs, it's okay we all learn things and make mistakes. Just file it away next time the thought of breeding occurs to you or someone you know wants to breed, spread information about genetic disease and health testing.

My father took Lady five times before she mated, to the vet, in order to do all the necessary tests and they all turned out negative. The vet where we are taking her to is specialized about pugs and it's one of the best in Slovenia, we also contacted the kennel where we bought her from, to tell the owner about our plans and to let us know if any of her siblings had any kind of problems or any diseases. So, no diseases, no harm done and everything is turning out for the best. I just want to let you that we were aware of the risk that we are taking and that's why before we've done anything we did our research, and offered the best treatment for Lady, as we would do for the newborn pugs now.

ladypenny wrote:My father took Lady five times before she mated, to the vet, in order to do all the necessary tests and they all turned out negative. The vet where we are taking her to is specialized about pugs and it's one of the best in Slovenia, we also contacted the kennel where we bought her from, to tell the owner about our plans and to let us know if any of her siblings had any kind of problems or any diseases. So, no diseases, no harm done and everything is turning out for the best. I just want to let you that we were aware of the risk that we are taking and that's why before we've done anything we did our research, and offered the best treatment for Lady, as we would do for the newborn pugs now.

Well that is excellent news. Which tests were done exactly? What were the scores?

Very well then.

Do you have your pug and your stud's kennel names and registered names? I like looking at pedigrees.

Lady's pedigree is at the stud's owners, they live in another town, so when they'll come to visit the puppies they will bring it and I will gladly show then to you. if you are that interested I can give you the links from the kennels where Lady and Bono were bought from.

ladypenny wrote:Lady's pedigree is at the stud's owners, they live in another town, so when they'll come to visit the puppies they will bring it and I will gladly show then to you. if you are that interested I can give you the links from the kennels where Lady and Bono were bought from.

Please do.

As soon as possible. By then, if it does you any good, I can send you the links from the kennels web sites where Lady and Bono were bought from. Hope that will feed your curiosity till I have the pedigrees.

ladypenny wrote:As soon as possible. By then, if it does you any good, I can send you the links from the kennels web sites where Lady and Bono were bought from. Hope that will feed your curiosity till I have the pedigrees.

I would like that thank you, just send me a Private Message on here if you do not want to post the websites in public.