Okay to Pull? (Rant Warning!)

Rant...

So this is one of my pet peeves in general, but mostly with Pug people in my area.

Since when is it okay to have your dog pull your arm socket out just because it's on a harness?

I frequently get slaughtered by die hard pug people online and offline (and a lot of small dog owners in general) because i walk Izzie on a collar. Somehow just by attaching a leash to her collar her trachea is going to collapse despite the fact she NEVER pulls and is a master at loose leash walking.

But that's the thing... She's TRAINED to walk nicely, just like i believe all dogs should be... But a lot of Pug people i meet and even some small dog owners in general use the excuse of pulling collapsing
the trachea to use a harness and not bother training "because they can't collapse their trachea in a harness". I understand that people don't want their dogs to strangle themselves, but for dog sakes why not at least TRY to train them instead of just laughing and going "oh well they're too cute and i have to laugh".

Is it that they don't know how to train them?
Do they just think it's cute because the "tiny dog wants to be a sled dog!"?
Do they just not care enough to bother training their dog at all?

It bothers me to have a member of the breed that's highly trained (and two that at least have manners and loose leash walk as well) and then having reputations tarnished by other members of the breed that just don't give a crap enough to train their dog to even walk properly "coz it's cute and they can't do
anything".

Ugh ... End Rant.

well, i think it's a personal decision whether you want to use a collar vs. a harness. everyone has their own preference.

my boys all walk very nicely on a harness and have all been to obedience training. however, if we are in a large group and there are lots of exciting things around, they will pull. i can usually correct them, but it can be difficult with multiple dogs whose excitement level is high.

violet, on the other hand, is a total disaster walking on a leash. she has a harness. i've been thinking of going to a collar for a while with her, but she is also an excellent escape artist and i find the only thing she can't really get out of is a buddy belt harness. so, i'm nervous about the collar. we have taken her to training (and practiced A LOT), with minimal results. in fact, i still work on the pulling every time we go out to walk. she has a very high prey drive and it's hard to overcome. she doesn't seem to get anything i do. i usually just stop in my tracks and wait for her to stop pulling and look back at me, then i say "let's go" and we continue. i have to work very hard to be consistent with it. i also try to snap her leash a bit to correct her, but this is not as good as stopping completely. it can make for a frustrating walk.

i don't think pulling is cute and it's not for lack of training attempts that violet pulls. it makes all of our walks very difficult and embarrassing. i'm sure a lot of people look at me and think "oh, she has a small dog that she can't bother to train." with violet, i'm not sure if a collar would help or not. i'm nervous enough that i haven't tried it yet, but maybe i will try it in a controlled setting like the back yard and see if i get any different results.

But see you at least have a reason and you certainly aren't stopping people in the street or screaming at someone who posted a picture of their dog on a walk wearing a collar telling them they're horrible people kill their dog.

Those are the folks I'm mainly talking about. The ones that can't seem to keep their noses out of MY business and tell me i'm a horrible person while their dogs are stretched to the end of their leads (lots of times flexi leads) pulling like maniacs.

that's silly that they are saying that to you and making you feel bad over your personal choice. i would just say that your pug is trained and has no issues with their collar. there are plenty of pugs that wear collars. people say all sorts of stupid things and there are always those who think they are always right no matter what.

We like using harnesses for our three. It's our prefrence.

As for pulling, mine do it sometimes. Especially, if there is a lot of excitement or other dogs around they do tend to pull more. I don't think it's funny or cute. I do become embarrassed, because not only do they pull, but Murphy yodels when he see's people coming towards him. If we are walking in the neighborhood they do really well and if they begin to pull we stop and then start going again.

I think some people just don't know how to get there dog under control. I don't think it makes them bad pet owners or bad people. I think they might not know how to do it.

MandyPug wrote:But see you at least have a reason and you certainly aren't stopping people in the street or screaming at someone who posted a picture of their dog on a walk wearing a collar telling them they're horrible people kill their dog.

Those are the folks I'm mainly talking about. The ones that can't seem to keep their noses out of MY business and tell me i'm a horrible person while their dogs are stretched to the end of their leads (lots of times flexi leads) pulling like maniacs.

Well that's just stupid! No one should stop you, unless you are harming the dog and you aren't, so they shouldn't care. Maybe you need to get a T-shirt that says, "My dog can be walked wearing a collar, because I TRAINED her to be!" That is terrible you're being crucified for not doing anything wrong. Hell, they should be happy your out exercising your dog!

I prefer a harness for Phoebe, she tends to walk better with it. ALso I need her to wear a harness becasue of her seatbelt mechanism that it attaches to the harness. However I see a lot of both in my area. some use harnesses some use just collars. I think if your dog walks nicely on a collar (yay for you!) you should be able to do such a thing.

There's nothing wrong about walking on a collar if your dog doesn't pull. But, I prefer the safety of a Buddy Belt harness for my 2. Besides protecting their trachea, I can pick them up with it in an emergency situation to get them out of danger. It also sets a good example for other pug owners - and we all learn from each other.

I see too many people walking their Pug, Frenchie, Yorkie, Poodle (or any dog with a known delicate trachea) on collars with the dog who is trying to train for the Iditarod.

All my dogs wear harnesses for various reasons. And pulling or not pulling is more about training and less about equipment. Having said that, I prefer to train a puller in a harness so that no damage gets done to the trachea while they are learning not to pull.

In the case of my pugs, their necks are wider than their heads so collars simply don't work for us at all. They slip them easily unless the collars are strangulation tight. So no collars for my crew.

The shih tzu and the pom both already have fragile tracheas so no collars for them.

Want my take on the issue? Most people don't know squat about dog training. And what they do know is often cursory and picked up from watching TV or perusing a book, but rarely about real knowledge. Many think that whatever they learned in obedience class (assuming they took their dog) never has to be reinforced or worked on. So when their dog begins to pull again, they assume that "obedience classes are useless because my dog still pulls".

What I don't like about collars on most dogs is the fact that most owners correct pulling in ways that are practically guaranteed to damage a dog's throat--leash popping, snapping the dog back to your leg or the patented suspending the dog by the throat with only the back legs on the ground. I'd rather see a pug (any dog really) in a harness if that's all the dog training knowledge the owner has--at least the dog won't be injured.

Everyone has the right to do what they want, but since Baby Girl came into rescue, I only use collars for fashion purposes. Baby Girl had a Grade IV (greater than >75%) Collapsed Trachea. When we took her to University of Tennessee Vet College, they kept her harness with her vs even using the slip collars. We take our other pug to basic obedience class where she wears a collar during training, but then we put her harness on to go to and from the building. IMO, even if a small dog does not pull on their leash, it is the placement of where the collars hits them on the trachea. I size my pugs' harnesses so that it comes down lower on their neck to their chest. People who show their dogs and have their leads properly placed under the chin don't hit the trachea the same way a collars does on a pug. But these are just my opinions because I live with a dog that has a damaged trachea.

Not Afraid wrote:.....(with a harness) I can pick them up with it in an emergency situation to get them out of danger.

This is one of the reasons I use a harness. I want to be able to lift them quickly out of danger if we meet a stray dog. With a collar, I couldn't do that.

All mine are nekkid in the house and yard, and wear a harness if we take a walk or go for a ride somewhere.

I'm also a harness person, but only because I don't have Co-Pilot at 100% with her leash behavior. I used to show her so she does walk very nicely on a lead or collar, but there was the one time there was a loose dog she tried to lunge at and choked herself pretty badly. From that point on, I banned collars for her.

That being said, if you have a trained pug and know what you are doing by all means you should able to walk your pug and not have people stop you. More frustrating is you have taken the time to train your dog and you are getting scolded anyway. I completely understand your rant.

Both of mine will walk nicely with collars and they pull like trains when in their harnesses.

Am I the only person in the world who has had multiple pugs get out of harnesses? (Not all at the same time...no wait, there was that time...Buddy and Sunny both escaped at the same time.) Once a dog figures out they can back out of a harness, there's a problem.

I agree about teaching dogs not to pull. I retired the harnesses and use buckle collars for mine since they're taught to not pull as soon as they come to my house. If I have a hard-core puller I use the Premiere Easy-Walk harness because I can fit the clip to their collar and they can't escape.

For Eli, Bill Bailey and Cornell I use a martingale. They like to bite and Eli loves a good brawl so for everyone's safety, they wear martingales.

Karen - my Jessie can get out of any harness, and very quickly. I've tried the puppia, the step in kind, the one foot step in, have made it very snug, etc. Doesn't matter, she'll back right out of it.

For that reason, she doesn't get to go on walks or outings. I don't trust her not to take off. It's hard enough getting her to the vet.

Dre is the only one of my four who will walk nicely on a lead of any kind (thanks Sarina!). Even then if I'm taking her anywhere, I put her in a harness. Bello is a punk, and I'm too lazy to work with him. So I take the blame for that, not him.

Angel wears a harness, for steering purposes (helping her navigate around the house). The little ones all wear collars while we're at home.

pugasaurus wrote:Am I the only person in the world who has had multiple pugs get out of harnesses? (Not all at the same time...no wait, there was that time...Buddy and Sunny both escaped at the same time.) Once a dog figures out they can back out of a harness, there's a problem.

I agree about teaching dogs not to pull. I retired the harnesses and use buckle collars for mine since they're taught to not pull as soon as they come to my house. If I have a hard-core puller I use the Premiere Easy-Walk harness because I can fit the clip to their collar and they can't escape.

For Eli, Bill Bailey and Cornell I use a martingale. They like to bite and Eli loves a good brawl so for everyone's safety, they wear martingales.

Surprisingly, my master at harness escape was blind Pete. He got out of a Buddy Belt in about a second and a half. I haven't had alot of issues with this--but collars simply slide right over Tank's and Hazel's heads since they are both fat necks.

You'd think Lola would be the one with the Houdini tendencies since she's such a ratbag to begin with, but no. She and Theo both have pretty iffy tracheas so only harnesses.

I have found a GREAT harness from a company called Clean Run--Jesse with the agility pugs turned me onto this company. It's easy on the throat, rides low on the chest and is excellent for pullers.

I think it is up to the owner to make that choice, and harness vs. collar depends alot on the dogs personality and health etc..I will admit that my attempts to properly leash train buddy did not work so well, and find that now that he has the liberty of a fenced in yard it is even worse then before, however that is my own issues to deal with, and i would not critisize someone for using a collar or harness when i use the other just really is none of my business. I could see if you were abusing your dog or neglecting him or something, but not for a simple thing like this.

Murphy is my escape artist, even in a harness. I have to watch him when we walk because if he doesn't like the direction, he will back out of a harness. Collars are an even bigger nightmare on him for this reason, and because he pulls no matter what. And he's a CGC and a therapy dog. He just hates healing and I've run out of patience.

Duke on the other hand is a dream to walk. He had emergency surgery on Memorial Day and had a six-inch incision on his belly. So for walks, I had to put him in a collar so it wouldn't pull or irrriate the area. And he did fine on it, even in public with Murphy the mega puller by his side. I only put the harness back on him this weekend because we went up to visit some friends and I felt more secure. But he likes the collar and we're giving some consideration into making it part of his walking routine.

I reccommend a harness when I talk to pug people, especially in rescue, but I do also emphasize that it depends on the dog and the training.

my first pug wore a harness even though he was well trained on the leash (after much work with him as he had no training PERIOD from his previous "owners"). Jordy had a small head and a big neck and could get out of a collar very quickly.

we bought a harness for BJ as it will be easier to lead him, for one thing, and two we don't know how he does on leash.

Yuka is collar trained though she also has a harness (mainly because I thought she would need one as my other pug did). She actually is so well behaved we often go off leash in the off leash parks here in town. Yes, I know, it's not popular by a lot of owners online, but my dog IS well trained and instead of being aggressive off leash if she sees another dog she immediately comes and stands next to me almost like she's ready to leap in my arms if something bad is about to happen. We also know most of the dogs in the park we use, so she's used to them. Though, really, she is not a dog pug. She is rather anti social with most dogs, so we just power walk around a beautiful lake. (MaryJo can attest to the fact that Yuka would rather hang with humans than other dogs/pugs it drives MJ nuts lol)

I see too many people walking their Pug, Frenchie, Yorkie, Poodle (or any dog with a known delicate trachea) on collars with the dog who is trying to train for the Iditarod.

Interestingly enough most mushers who have "pet" dogs as well as sled dogs, have some of the most well behaved leash dogs (obviously not the dogs that are racing). I learned how to train Yuka from a musher, in fact. Before that I was doing the 'old fashioned' style, but she was too stubborn to do it. With the way we train the trick dogs in our show Yuka's learned so much as an adult dog. Next pup I get will be getting the training from day one!

Yoda is a major puller of note....every single day, I try and get him to stop, but this is everyday !!! Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
May I suggest someone puts up a sticky of a solid way, or different ways on training your dog on a leash, with a harness. I myself will never ever use a collar on him, hes too unpredictable. I'd love to learn how so that I don't look so daft being pulled down 20 stairs by a small pug every day !!

Thankfully, my pug and my grand pugs are all great walkers and we use leashes with no problems whatsoever. My Ty more or less walks just a bit behind me instead of at my side. I think it is because his vision is so poor.

The three grand pugs roam freely when at home (they live on seven acres) and yet they all walk nicely when they are here and we have to use leashes. They all went to to obedience training. A wise investment.