Chronic diarrhea?

We came home the day after Christmas to find Makayla had diarrhea. Fasted her, started bland diet. Did this for about 10 days to 2 weeks, poop started to be normal again, so began slowly mixing in food - we're talking maybe 5 pieces of her kibble, since I transition back to kibble VERY slowly. Diarrhea started all over. Fasted, bland diet. Then went to vet and got metronidazal (sp?!) and Endosorb. Got back to soft poop while continuing bland diet. Finished the meds, diarrhea started again. Fasted, bland diet. Diarrhea continued.

Long story short - Kayla has been on bland diet (either chicken and rice or hamburger and rice) since December 27. And during that time, her stool hasn't gotten any better than soft at its best. It's not diarrhea every single day - she'll often go a day or two without pooping. But when she does poop again, it's either diarrhea or soft poop. And when she has the diarrhea, she's not digesting the rice - it's like corn in that it comes out looking the same as it did going in!!

So we're now on our third round of Endosorb and Metronidazal. Today, he decided we should stop her Prednisone (she takes 5 mg daily) and stop the bland diet and try the Purina prescription food for gastro problems. We'll see how it goes. Probably a long shot, but he wants to see if the Pred is upsetting her stomach.

I'm at my wit's end - it's now going on 6 weeks that we've been fighting diarrhea. And aside from the muscle mass that she's lost in her back end from her DM, Kayla is now down to skin and bones because she's simply not getting enough nutrition on the bland diet and she's still having diarrhea. I think the vet is stumped. He mentioned that he's not sure what's causing the GI upset right now; even threw out the possibility of intestinal lymphoma. We're not going there yet!

Has anyone had any experience with chronic diarrhea? Also, the vet just switched to Purina prescription diet - has anyone used them in the past? Good experiences? Bad? Any and all ideas welcome!

Ican't be a lot of help but after 18 months of trial and error and many AK tests & finding Jasmine allergic to so much, we might be winning the battle of diarrhea with her. She is nothing but skin and bones yet eats like a small horse, weighs only 12.5 lbs. Two weeks ago, vet advised using Metamucil, pumpkin and green beans for fiber (she tested allergic to them before but is OK with them now) and while she's still skinny, her poops are normal. She goes about 5 times a day but where it used to be pure diarrhea, now it's solid. Two weeks ago, she weighed a couple of ozs. more than she did today but I keep hoping things will improve. Her blood tests showed she has elevated white blood cells and is on antibiotics for 2 weeks. No UTI, thank goodness. She was healthy when I got her 4.5 years ago but has been fighting one thing or another the past year and a half. I don't know if these suggestions will help or not but they did with Jasmine. Are you near a holistic vet? Mine isn't holistic, per se, but does chiro and acupuncture.

Don't freak out by this... My only experience was with Jewel and complications from her severe inflammatory bowel disease. They had her on a bland diet, I/D kibble and canned, baby food, and then finally a feeding tube, which caused her to aspirate and go into cardiac failure. Jewel's case was a rare one, so it sounds like you and your vet are trying many things. I know how hard it is to see them lose so much body weight, so quickly. Thinking of you both, and hope your vet is able to come up with a treatment.

Don't worry, Rebecca, it didn't freak me out. My dad's pug, Zorro, passed away from what we presume were complications of IBD. So it's constantly on my mind.

I think the thing that makes it most difficult to figure out is that aside from diarrhea/loose stools and weight loss, she has no other symptoms. She's not any more lethargic than she normally is at the time of year (they're must less active in winter), her appetite is equal to the appetite of 12 pugs, she's not vomiting, and she's not dehydrated (thankfully).

We've tried the pumpkin with no results. Haven't tried Metamucil and didn't think about trying green beans. Will have to give the pumpkin a try again and then try the green beans if pumpkin doesn't get any results.

I haven't had any experience with this, but the woman who adopted Leila has a dog with IBD AND PLE. She's tried all the diets and the prescription vegetarian diet is working, for some reason. It may have more to do with the PLE, than the IBD, but it might be worth approaching this like a PLE or IBD situation.

I can send you some diet stuff for PLE/IBD dogs if you want. I've also had pretty good success with diarrhea using Acute Care by Centaur VA--same folks who make Sasha's Blend.

northernwitch wrote:I haven't had any experience with this, but the woman who adopted Leila has a dog with IBD AND PLE. She's tried all the diets and the prescription vegetarian diet is working, for some reason. It may have more to do with the PLE, than the IBD, but it might be worth approaching this like a PLE or IBD situation.

I can send you some diet stuff for PLE/IBD dogs if you want. I've also had pretty good success with diarrhea using Acute Care by Centaur VA--same folks who make Sasha's Blend.

Blanche, if you could send me PLE/IBD diet stuff, that'd be great. I'm open to all options. Not holding my breath that this Purina prescription diet is going to work, since I'm not crazy about the prescription foods, but I am open to trying everything. My main goal is just to get Kayla healthy again - well, as healthy as she'll ever be.

This is some info on liver diets, but they tend to be pretty low protein and pretty bland. Might be worth a shot.

Diet Recipe

Cottage Cheese, Tofu, and Rice Diet (moderate sodium)
1/2 cup cottage cheese, 1% fat
2/3 cup tofu, raw firm
1 1/2 cups rice, long grain, cooked
1 teaspoon Flax oil
1/2 teaspoon Herbal Multivitamin
1/2 teaspoon Pure bone meal
Provides 651 calories, 36.9 grams protein, 21.8 grams fat, 0.28% sodium.
Feeding smaller meals is very important!
Egg and Rice Diet (moderate sodium)
2 eggs scrambled, cooked
1 1/2 cups rice, long grain, cooked
1 teaspoon Flax oil
1/2 teaspoon Herbal Multivitamin
1/2 teaspoon Pure bone meal
Provides 651 calories, 36.9 grams protein, 21.8 grams fat, 0.28% sodium.




LOW PROTEIN DIETS

Low protein diets play a role in the treatment of several conditions, such as kidney disease, advanced liver disease, and some forms of dominance aggression. [If your pet has been prescribed a low protein diet], but doesn’t like any of the commercial preparations, you might consider trying one of these home-cooked recipes.


EGG & POTATO DIET
(low-protein, low-phosphorous, high-potassium, normal sodium) for Dogs
• 1 egg, large, cooked
• 3 cups potato, boiled with skin
• 1 tablespoon chicken fat
• 1½ calcium carbonate tablets (600 milligrams calcium)
• ½ multiple-mineral tablet
Provides 600 kilocalories, 15.1 grams protein, 18.5 grams fat. Supports caloric needs of an 18-pound dog.
Provides phosphorus at 53 percent, potassium at 322 percent, sodium at 114 percent of dogs daily needs. To feed this diet with a normal amount of phosphorus, substitute 3 bonemeal tablets for the 1 1/2 carbonate tablets.


CHICKEN AND POTATO DIET
(low protein low phosphorus, high potassium, low sodium) for Dogs
• ¼ cup cooked chicken breast
• 3 cups potato, boiled with skin
• 2 tablespoons chicken fat
• 1 ½ calcium carbonate tablets (600 milligrams calcium)
• ½ multiple vitamin-mineral tablet
Provides 689 kilocalories, 18.9 grams protein, 26.8 grams fat. Supports caloric needs of a 21-22 pound dog
Provides phosphorus at 45 percent, potassium at 301 percent, sodium at 54 percent of a dog's daily needs. To feed this diet with a normal amount of phosphorus, substitute 4 bonemeal tablets for the 1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets.

LOW FAT/LOW PROTEIN DIET FOR DOGS
• ½ pkg. Salad Macaroni (cooked)
• 1 Cup Brown Rice (Cook separately: 1C Rice w/2.5 C water/45 min.)
• 2 Eggs Hard-boiled and chopped up finely
• 8-10 Tums Crushed (calcium carbonate)
• ½ pkg. Frozen Broccoli and
• ½ pkg. Frozen Carrots - steamed until crisp/tender (chop up finely)
Mix everything together. Can be frozen in small portions. You can also add ½ -1 tablespoon. low calorie cottage cheese.

I've also added a little bit of cooked ground chicken...and doubled the recipe for ease and frozen it in serving size portions.

Rachel, here's another bit on diet for chronic diarrhea that might be useful:

Diet for Dogs with Diarrhea

Inflammatory bowel disease is the name given to a group of conditions that are characterized by inflammation of the intestinal tract which is associated with (usually chronic and persistent) gastrointestinal signs. The clicnical signs most commonly seen in pets with inflammatory bowel disease often reflect the location of the inflammation. Vomiting, diarrhea, and weight loss are usually observed.
Causes of Inflammatory Bowel Disease

Causes of inflammatory bowel disease are numerous and include parasites (whipworms, giardia), fungi (histoplasmosis, protothecosis), bacteria (Salmonella, Campylobacter; pathogenic E. coli), food allergy/hypersensitivity and cancer (lymphosarcoma, adenocarcinoma). Most commonly, the idiopathic classification of inflammatory bowel disease is seen in dogs and cats. While there is no known cause of idiopathic inflammatory bowel disease, most doctors suspect some type of allergy as this is an immune disease. The allergy or sensitivity might be due to the diet (many mild cases can respond to dietary manipulations). Allergies to food components usually involve cereal grains (wheat, barley, and oats, all of which contain gluten, a common dietary protein in many cereal grains), meats, and rarely eggs.

Dogs with gastrointestinal disease need diets with highly digestible protein that are also low in fat. Low-fat cottage cheese (0.5 cup) is used to provide protein. Brown or white rice (2 cups) is an easily digestible carbohydrate source (boiled or baked potato can be tried if the dog refuses rice.) Potassium can be added using supplements such as Tumil-K (available through veterinarians) or by adding 1/4-1/2 teaspoon of salt supplement (potassium chloride).

This diet would provide approximately 500 kcal with 27 grams of protein and 2 grams of fat. Two to three bonemeal tablets (10 grain or equivalent) or 3/4 teaspoon of bonemeal powder to supply calcium and phosphorus with a multivitamin mineral supplement is added as the pet improves.

Alternatively, Calcifood Wafers or Calcium Lactate can be used (use one Calcifood Wafer or 2 Calcium Lactate tablets for each 2 bonemeal tablets.

When possible, natural vitamins made from raw whole foods, rather than synthetic vitamins (although both can be used in combination) are preferred, as the natural vitamins also supply plant phytochemicals, enzymes, and other nutrients not found in chemically-synthesized vitamins.

Fresh, raw or slightly steamed vegetable (carrots, broccoli, etc) can be used as a top dressing for the diet for extra nutrition and variety as the pet improves.

Most vegetables provide approximately 25 kcal per cup. In general, the above recipe supplies the daily nutritional and caloric needs for a 12-13 pound dog. The actual amount to feed will vary based upon the pet's weight (feed less if weight gain), more if weight loss.)

dieselsmom wrote:Don't worry, Rebecca, it didn't freak me out. My dad's pug, Zorro, passed away from what we presume were complications of IBD. So it's constantly on my mind.

I think the thing that makes it most difficult to figure out is that aside from diarrhea/loose stools and weight loss, she has no other symptoms. She's not any more lethargic than she normally is at the time of year (they're must less active in winter), her appetite is equal to the appetite of 12 pugs, she's not vomiting, and she's not dehydrated (thankfully).

I remembered you telling me about Zorro.

Blanche... I am really grateful for the amount of information that you post. Thank you.

Rebecca and the Pugs wrote:

dieselsmom wrote:Don't worry, Rebecca, it didn't freak me out. My dad's pug, Zorro, passed away from what we presume were complications of IBD. So it's constantly on my mind.

I think the thing that makes it most difficult to figure out is that aside from diarrhea/loose stools and weight loss, she has no other symptoms. She's not any more lethargic than she normally is at the time of year (they're must less active in winter), her appetite is equal to the appetite of 12 pugs, she's not vomiting, and she's not dehydrated (thankfully).

I remembered you telling me about Zorro.

Blanche... I am really grateful for the amount of information that you post. Thank you.

Well feel free to tell me to can it, if I start annoying anyone. I can be a bit of a research freak on this stuff. BUT if it's useful, I'm happy to oblige.

This is what Angel has been going through. Our vet has her on the Metrodiazonale long-term for IBD (essentially). She gets 1/2 pill, 2x per day for the last several months. We also determined that the steroid in the Temaril P was irritating her stomach so we weaned her off of that (benadryl is controlling her allergies for the most part).

We're back to soft, which is much, much better than diarrhea.

northernwitch wrote:

Rebecca and the Pugs wrote:

dieselsmom wrote:Don't worry, Rebecca, it didn't freak me out. My dad's pug, Zorro, passed away from what we presume were complications of IBD. So it's constantly on my mind.

I think the thing that makes it most difficult to figure out is that aside from diarrhea/loose stools and weight loss, she has no other symptoms. She's not any more lethargic than she normally is at the time of year (they're must less active in winter), her appetite is equal to the appetite of 12 pugs, she's not vomiting, and she's not dehydrated (thankfully).

I remembered you telling me about Zorro.

Blanche... I am really grateful for the amount of information that you post. Thank you.

Well feel free to tell me to can it, if I start annoying anyone. I can be a bit of a research freak on this stuff. BUT if it's useful, I'm happy to oblige.

Very useful, and very appreciated.

Rachel, I haven't had a chance to read thru all of the information that Blanche posted yet (so I may be duplicating some of what she said) but I wanted to add that Buster has suffered from loose stools on & off for quite a while now. It got better once he got used to his homecooked diet but it still happens now and then. His holistic vet suggested that we add l-glutamine & digestive enzymes. So far, he's doing really well with those (knock wood!).

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L-Glutamine: This is an amino acid that has shown promising results in the last few years to provide healing in the digestive system. Studies have shown it helps to repair intestinal tissue at the cellular level and it is a precursor to glutathione, an antioxidant. L-glutamine is also an aid to help restore muscle atrophy. It also induces the large intestine to remove excess water, which is helpful for dogs prone to diarrhea.

Digestive Enzymes: There are several types of digestive enzymes that help break down certain foods. Protease help breaks down proteins, lipase helps to break down fats and amylase assists in breaking down carbohydrates. There are many enzymes that fall under each category and different types for various stages of digestion. The two types of enzymes that are most common are those from either from animal or plant sources. Both are necessary to aid in all phases of digestion. Dogs with irritated or inflamed digestive tracts have difficulty breaking down the food for the nutrients, and digestive enzymes can help with this process and offer better nutrition in the small intestine.

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Sorry that you guys are going thru this! I hope that she's feeling better soon.

We had a long battle with diarrhoea and soft poops with Toddy when he was about 9 months old. It started with a period of stress when we went on hols and took forever to get under control. All tests came back negative. We also had fairly frequent vomiting.

Eventually he was put on Royal Canin very low fat dietetic kibble. This helped the vomiting but the poops remained soft. I was worried about his fibre intake as the kibble was also low fibre.

He was put on a pre and pro biotic supplement with also contained fibre and did well on this. The poops firmed up again. He's now on the same diet as Snifter which is fish only and grain free fish kibble and he's doing fine.

I did find whilst the whole thing was clearing up that we would have some setbacks as I transitioned him back on to regular food but switching immediately back to the veterinary kibble and fibre firmed things up pretty quick.

Rachel, nothing to add to the excellent advice other than I hope you can get this sorted.

And also to agree with Rebecca about Blanche. Blanche, you are a wonderful source of some incredibly valuable information about caring for our critters. Thank you.

Aggy had issues for several months after I got her. She was on Tylan powder for 6 weeks, Hill's prescription WD (for the high fiber content) for about 6 months then I switched her to 1/2 that and 1/2 Natural Balance. Now she eat all Natural Balance with no issues.

Rachel, we haven't tried this ourselves and I don't know if it's appropriate given Makayla's underlying conditions, but I have a friend who has been using Dr. Marty Goldstein's (holistic vet) diarrhea recipe for years and she swears by it (but she also mentioned that her dogs will eat anything).

It's white potato, sweet potato or yam, leek, and turnip boiled down until they are pretty much mush. She just mushes them together but she said you can blend it, too. It's kind of soupy.

We have only had occasional diarrhea problems that are cured pretty quickly with flagil and I/D so no real personal experience to help you.

Kiss to Makayla.

Thank you all for the suggestions and thoughts. I agree, Blanche, you're an amazing resource for us!!!

We're going to try the Purina prescription diet and no Pred for a few days and see how this goes.

I've never dealth with such an extended period of diarrhea before with any of the dogs. They've usually all gotten back to normal stool with bland diet and sometimes metronidazole and Endosorb. And Kayla always had fabulously firm poop on Wellness Core. My thought is that given her other health conditions, it may just be harder for her body to recover from this. I don't know. I'm really at a loss.

If this Purina prescription food doesn't work, we'll start trying some of the other diets and recipes you all have suggested. Thank you all again!!

We had normal poop!!!! Kayla had a normal poop at 2:00 this a.m. It was brown and solid (as opposed to orangeish yellow and soft/diarrhea like it has been for the past 6 weeks). If it hadn't been 2 a.m. and I wasn't exhausted because she'd had me up every hour for the third night in a row, I'd have done a happy poop dance.

Then just a few minutes ago, she had another poop - brown and fairly solid again!!!



So, I don't know if it's the prescription diet we started feeding her on Monday, or the fact that we've stopped the Pred, or that yesterday we started adding a scoop of pumpkin to her dinner. But regardless, we have normal poop right now!!!! We'll keep doing what we're doing for now and hope the normal poops continue!

I'll do the Happy Poop Dance for you. Great, great news.

So glad that she's improving--whatever the reason.

Great news Rachel!

So glad to hear it!! Yay for good poop!

Amanda wrote:So glad to hear it!! Yay for good poop!

Yep, yay for good poop.

Boy, are we sick or what? lol!! Only pug people!

Awesome news!!
Hooray for good poops!!