Ear Infection/Vet Visit Updated.

First I have to vent. I absolutely hate Banfield Pet Hospital. I feel like crap for taking Lola there but she had the puppy plan so it was free-ish and it was supposed to be quick.

Now, Lola has a Bacterial Ear Infection they did the Microsopic exam to be sure. They came back with a total of about 200 bucks in meds that I should get. I am not saying that I cannot afford it nor that I don't feel that she is important enough to spend $200 on but I knew at this point that something wasn't right. I would like some opinions on the situation and to know if I am just being cheap or what.

First they wanted to give her a shot of an anti-inflamatory (the Vet said that she saw a little bit of inflamation) to that they want her to use Tresaderm drops (which is also a anti-inflamatory), a ear cleaning, and there special ear cleaner. Now if a vet says they saw a bit of Inflammation why would they use two separate treatments for something that is minor? I asked for a copy of the prescription so that I could order the Tresaderm because they were charging me $40 for it and that's with my 25% off. So this has now been ordered for half the price with shipping, I will be giving this to her by Saturday when it gets here. I might just be a penny pincher but $30 for a ear cleaning is beyond steep IMO. Her new vet charges $12 for that service and she has an appointment there in two weeks. One of the nurses a while back when I used to work at petsmart told me that it is just the same as what Petsmart sells just the Banfield brand, so I opted out of this for now as well.

I might just be being cheap. At this point I find it REALLY hard to trust a vet, they seem like they are nothing more than a used car salesman. Is this really wrong of me? I am a big guy, if you saw me with just a leash in my hand you would not think that I would be the type to have a pug or any miniature breed at that, so when I get pissy at the Vet I tend to be a bit harsh so I am just hoping that I just wasn't a ass and my actions were at least a bit justified at this point.

I think Banfield is a joke and they always try to upsell. Find a vet you're comfortable with and stick with them. I would have done the same thing if I had gone to Banfield.

It's not unusual for some vets to over-service and get you coming and going. If that's the impression you're left with from these guys, find another vet. And nothing wrong with trying to find meds cheaper elsewhere - we all do it if possible! I hope Lola gets over this soon!

And just to show how female-centric we are, I thought you were a woman too! Not that you posted ANYTHING to give me that impression, just that we don't have enough testosterone around here. Glad you're bringing some in!

Bottom line, if you've got a bad feeling about the vet, listen to your gut. Glad you found a new vet and I hope all works out there.

Not a fan of Banfield myself. When we adopted Leo, his old owner also had him enrolled in the puppy wellness program that include vaccinations, a discount on neutering and some other stuff. When we got him, he still had a corneal ulcer and very bad ear infections in both ears and that was AFTER he'd been treated for a month by Banfield. She offered to transfer Leo's Banfield benefits to us. We declined and just decided to start over with our own vet.

Now, ear cleaning for an infection can get expensive depending on what they do. Two of our pugs have super narrow ear canals that trap a lot of bacteria and yeast and I have spent hundreds at a visit for a thorough ear cleaning (the kind where they have to keep them at the vet for a while and get a good soaking, not the kind where they just take the pug in back and swab the ear).

There is a type of special ear concoction my vet mixes up that we apply once a week, something-otic (I'll look it up when I get home). We use that only on Chester and Bruno who have more ear issues. For Leo who hasn't had any ear problems since his initial ear infections, we simply use Fresh Ear or Swimmer's Ear gel (about $12-15 per bottle) once a week as a preventative. But that's about it.

So the short answer is, yeah, I'd be generally suspicious of Banfield.

One of the best ear cleaning solutions I've ever found you can make yourself--called Blue Power solution--I can post the recipe if you'd like

If you haven't already, I'd get your pug off of all grains and chicken and beef. They tend to be the big allergens for dogs. There are some great no grain kibbles out there. You may already know or have done this so ignore if you have. Diet can make a huge difference in ear infections. I know as I have a houseful of allergy dogs.

When I do treat an ear infection, I use Surolan which I have found to be the most effective to date. I have used Otomax and it's fine, but I find Surolan seems to clear it up faster.

Ditto about the vet. Go with your gut and find someone YOU feel confident with.

Too many people to quote. First i'd love the recipe. Thank you all for reassuring me that I wasn't a complete ass for thinking I was being taken advantage of.

Yea, my wife jokingly calls me all sorts of names for posting on the forums. I feel that if me being on here makes my pugs life better then so be it I'll take the abuse.

And another comment directed to northern witch is the medicine that you were speaking of that isn't homemade a prescription?

Also Lola is currently on the honest kitchen keen but it does have grain in it I believe. To that I add either tripe, beef, lamb, canned salmon, or sardines. The vet did say she needs to lose 2 pounds she somehow gained a full pound in like a week.

What's your name, by the way. I'm Blanche and live in Canada (hence the northern part of my online name).

In the rescue, we see dog after dog after dog with skin and ear issues and they almost always clear up with a grain free diet. And I'd get rid of any chicken or beef that you add. Stick to novel proteins like lamb, pork, duck, venison, elk, goat, or fish. Watch out for salmon as I have one dog that does react to that. My dogs are all raw fed, but I don't feed raw fish--I usually use canned, well rinsed.

Surolan is a prescription ear ointment, but if a dog has a persistent ear infection that isn't getting cleared up by diet change alone, I've found Surolan to be the most effective. And if the dog already has a pretty bad infection, you want to treat it and not just wait for diet changes alone.

I'll post the recipe for the Blue Power Solution separately.

Dboardman wrote:
Also Lola is currently on the honest kitchen keen but it does have grain in it I believe. To that I add either tripe, beef, lamb, canned salmon, or sardines. The vet did say she needs to lose 2 pounds she somehow gained a full pound in like a week.

We feed HK Keen as well. The grains are oatmeal and flaxseed.

My gang, other than the foster, does not have grain allergies, so I have not gone completely grain free, but I do avoid any grains like wheat, corn, etc.

Renee wrote:

Dboardman wrote:
Also Lola is currently on the honest kitchen keen but it does have grain in it I believe. To that I add either tripe, beef, lamb, canned salmon, or sardines. The vet did say she needs to lose 2 pounds she somehow gained a full pound in like a week.

We feed HK Keen as well. The grains are oatmeal and flaxseed.

My gang, other than the foster, does not have grain allergies, so I have not gone completely grain free, but I do avoid any grains like wheat, corn, etc.

Oatmeal and flaxseed are, in theory, pretty benign grains, but I have
two dogs that react to them. Also any yeast product in a food like
brewer's yeast will encourage fungal and some bacterial infections. I
just eliminate all grains/yeasts to be on the safe side.

The other thing I've found is that with dogs that have seasonal
allergies (yes, I have two of those as well) any plant in the food that
is at all "hay fever-ish"--like alfalfa, chamomile, calendula, burdock,
chicory, any grasses--will set off a reaction when eaten in food.

To Lola's dad, Lola is a lucky Pug! You sound like an incredibly caring, open-to-learning, intelligent Pug-father. Stick around please! And tell your wife she should join in.

Oh, and BTW, anything Blanche suggests is tried, tested (and highly recommended) on multiple pugs (and other breeds!) that have had the benefit of her incredible care as they are lucky enough to have a visit at her house while waiting for forever homes.

Well crap, Blanche. Where have you been with that damned recipe all my life? Between Chester and Bruno, we probably could have bought a car with all the money we might have saved using a do-it-yourself recipe. We've been using a miconazole mixture for years and it has a relatively short shelf life and a very expensive vet to mix it.

Where does one buy Boric Acid Powder and the violet thing? I have a feeling I'm about to do something that makes Karl roll his eyes again.

p.s. We used to use Otomax also but did not find it to be terribly effective.

Thank you for posting the recipe, it looks to be a big hit for everyone! My names David by the way. I will go ahead and steer clear of chicken and beef. I am gonna head to the farmers market sometime this week and pick up some more meat in bulk I'll try to just stay with pork and lamb for now. Venison is not in season unless your willing to pay outrageous prices for it. Come like mid-October my family in Alabama will be giving it away with their freezers overflowing. It really stinks that beef and chicken could be an allergy issue. I think I mentioned this on my other post but I am a meat cutter and it just so happens that my uncle keeps about 500 head of cattle on his farm and about 400,000 chickens in his 4 houses. All are either USDA Select or higher for beef and the chickens are all natural, no hormones or antibiotics. I will just have to wait until hunting season starts to pack the fridge.

But back to the infection. I picked up some ear cleaner today and cleaned her ears, it was a two part treatment, one to clean and another to dry as a powder. I guess banfield conveniently didn't have time to fax back the prescription to the online pharmacy today. Tomorrow I will take care of this first thing. Her ears are a bit red not really bad but she does scratch at them occasionally, maybe 1-2 times in an hour or so. I am going to go to CVS tomorrow and get this stuff. Even if it might not be okay to use it right now this seems like a good set of ingredients to have around the house no matter what.

smoochieface wrote:Well crap, Blanche. Where have you been with that damned recipe all my life? Between Chester and Bruno, we probably could have bought a car with all the money we might have saved using a do-it-yourself recipe. We've been using a miconazole mixture for years and it has a relatively short shelf life and a very expensive vet to mix it.

Where does one buy Boric Acid Powder and the violet thing? I have a feeling I'm about to do something that makes Karl roll his eyes again.

p.s. We used to use Otomax also but did not find it to be terribly effective.

Kendie I can find all the ingredients at my local drug store. The gentian violet is often behind the pharmacists counter--God knows why.

David:
Hopefully, Hilary will chime in here as she's the true raw feeding expert. Careful with some of the wild game as parasites can be an issue with them--but mostly via the organ meats. I know that venison liver is considered risky as a raw form, but I'm still unclear about if that a risk for dogs--so I cook all wild game organ meats.

Freezing generally takes care of the parasite issue in meat. I freeze almost all the meats I feed for 72 hours before feeding to my dogs.

For whatever reason, even my allergic guys do okay with "organic" beef offal.

Hi David, just a quick reply without having read all the replies, my girl Vivian has had chronic ear infections.
I looked up our last bill and it was $52.00 for the vet consult and $31.50 for the Tresaderm, ear cleaning was free, no shot for inf lamination.
I have since put her on a grain free diet, shes been on it for about a few weeks and so far so good, I know it might take a while if it really helps to know. It's Instinct by Natures Variety Duck and Turkey, I also got rid of all her treats that had grain in them.
I hope you are able to fine a vet that you like and are confident with.

Edited to say my husband used to make fun of me for asking so many questions on pug forums, now if something comes up he says what do the pug people say!

I just wanted to chime in on the incredible effectiveness of the Blue Power Ear Treatment. It worked wonders for Tyson who had such yeasty ears before we finally found a food that didn't he didn't have an allergic reaction to.

As for the ingredients, I went to a smaller "mom and pop" pharmacy to find them all-not a Walgreens or CVS, but I think the larger chains would probably be able to special order something for you if they don't stock it. The nice thing about the gentian violet is that you only need a few drops and it makes a huge batch, so it lasts for a while.

Hey, David, Lola is a very lucky pug to have such a wonderful dad. I can chime in on the grain thing - Penny gets an ear infection every time, and I mean everytime she has anything with wheat. Now oats are starting to get to her. I am anal-compulsive about keeping her grain-free. As to the vet, follow your gut. I wouldn't touch Banfield with a wet frog. (Sorry, my southern roots are showing) I've heard too many stories about how they over-charge and under-treat. Penny's dogtor is one of the most expensive in town, but she loves her, and she loves Penny and always does the right thing for her. So I suck it up and pay.

northernwitch wrote:

Kendie I can find all the ingredients at my local drug store. The gentian violet is often behind the pharmacists counter--God knows why.[/quote]

Blanche is the Blue Powder recipe effective as an anti fungul as well? Our biggest culprit is yeast. The only tiem we've battled the bacterial infection is when Chester got poop in his ear.

Grain Free Grain Free Grain Free!!! (That's the chant around here - and I chant loud along with everyone else.)

I have one additional suggestion that I can add for ear infections - Silver Protein applied directly into the ears after cleaning. It is a natural antibiotic and has done wonders on one of my clients' dogs. Locally, I can get the Flying Basset brand.

I use this stuff for many different purposes. My foster kitten had a URI and got it mixed into his food, my client's cats had on-going URI or Allergies that the vet couldn't keep from reoccurring and silver protein 2x daily has finally done the trick! You can also apply it directly on hot spots. I love it!

Hey David, Hilary chiming in here - LOL. Personally I haven't had a problem with my lot with either chicken or beef. Not saying it doesn't happen - it does, but it just hasn't happened with mine, fortunately. Every dog is different. The first thing I think is to get them off grains because yeast thrives on the sugar in grains. If that doesn't clear the problem, start an elimination diet to see what they are allergic to. I've written about it here: http://www.pugauthority.com/medical-wellbeing-by-topic-f2/food-allergies-and-elimination-diets-t5123.htm?highlight=elimination+diets. If you've got questions, ask away.

I've been doing some more research lately about systemic yeast infection (candidiasis, the infection caused by the candida albicans organism). If the dog's beneficial bacteria are destroyed - by an overgrowth of yeast in the presence of favourable conditions such as stress, bad nutrition, antibiotics, prednisone, vaccinations, and other triggers, the immune system will be unable to fight off any number of problems including but not limited to seasonal/environmental allergies and digestive problems. Once the candidiasis takes hold, it's hard to reverse even if you try to counterbalance with the beneficial bacteria in yoghurt. Symptoms frequently diagnosed as allergies (such as ear infections) can turn out to be caused by candidiasis.

It gets worse. The single-celled candida organism grows and mutates, sending out shoots in the body which penetrate the intestinal walls and potentially results in leaky gut syndrome. At this point the body begins to treat some foods as foreign invaders and sets up a reaction - this reaction is an allergy symptom (see the early part of the article I referenced earlier for a fuller description of this reaction).

Moreover, when it gets to this point, the thyroid is starting to malfunction and it would be beneficial to have a full thyroid panel done. The thyroid gland is extremely important because it controls the metabolism of EVERY CELL in the body; when it is compromised, any of the body's functions can be affected - e.g. tear glands (dry eye), kidneys (urinary tract problems/stones), nervous system, etc., etc.

On another note, I used the Blue Power Treatment successfully for many years. It is the only thing I know of that truly clears up the ear infections if you follow the instructions religiously. Of course, you also have to eliminate the underlying reason for the infection. I am an anti-Otomax person now. They even say on their monograph that it can cause irreversible deafness: http://www.1800petmeds.com/Otomax-prod10108.html . And if you read some of the information here, it will make your hair curl: http://www.drugs.com/vet/otomax.html.

Blanche, what's that name of the lactose-free probiotic supplement that you give and how much/often do you give it?

smoochieface wrote:Blanche, what's that name of the lactose-free probiotic supplement that you give and how much/often do you give it?

I give Dophilus Plus,made by Sisu. And Tank and Theo get it once a day in their morning meals. I also supplement Tank's meal with bromelian and Papain as we are pretty sure his absorption of food is not great and most digestive supplements have too many ingredients for Tank.

What Hilary just described pretty much described my Tank and, to some degree, my Theo. I'm the Yeast Queen. I have a fairly long protocol for what I've done with Tank and Theo that has, so far, been pretty successful. It's very labour intensive, but I am seeing results. However, Lola isn't anywhere near needing to launch into the War Against Yeasties that I have engaged in.

It's also important to use probiotics carefully. When first diagnosed, hold off on the probiotics until the antibacerial/antifungal meds have kicked in and reduced the amount of yeast - about 2 -3 weeks. Then go for it. Coconut oil and garlic are also effective in combatting the candida. High protein, low carbohydrate diets help as well by removing the sugars from the diet that encourage the yeast. And of course, no vaccinations - this is a serious enough condition to get a medical waiver for rabies.

I figured I would update everyone on Lola and her ear infection. We went to the vet today, if you live in the Atlanta area I would really recommend going to Well Pet. The whole crew was awesome, when we got there they had double booked due to an emergency which was fine by me since I saw the dog they were treating and he needed to be seen before me, even though he didn't get to leave :(. Lola of course was the center of attention, which she loves. The vet basically said that her ear infection is not bad at all, if it was bad it is now going away. She said that she loves Tresaderm so to keep using it and she also said that it is multi-purpose, it is also a great acne medicine if Lola is to ever get a pimple. Other than that they said she is a bit chunky, she needs to drop down to 17-18 lbs. She seemed really excited by the fact that she is on a raw diet and just said that I should do the same amount of overall food but less meat and more filler like green beans and such. She gave us a new set of heartworm meds and we were off. Overall this was the best Vet experience that I have ever had. I made the appointment for her rabies, parvo, and Bortella Vac. and we will be making the hike back to this vet from now on even when we are in Chattanooga.

The only thing she mentioned is that she has extremely narrow ear canals so I need to make sure to keep her ears clear of debris and moisture.